UPS retirement?

[Coffee Pot]

Hello Brown,
Just trying to get a ballpark figure on what the retirement payout would be for a 20 year career at UPS. Can anyone who works there, or someone who has one of those Kit Darby retirement books be so kind to provide the numbers? I know Darby’s numbers are a bit inflated, but a ballpark figure would be nice.

Also, is this provided as a lump sum or monthly installments?

And finally, for the Brown folks, are the two week on two week off schedules available system wide or just for ANC?

Many thanks.

 

[robert_fla]

Coffee,

Its basically 3k per year of service for captains under the new contract, so 60k is your ball park figure.
You can find the 15 day on schedule w/ SDF 747, SDF MD-11, SDF 767 int'l. maybe others.

r

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

A Plan is years of service X $3000. So 20 years would be 60K per year, but you can only collect it when you reach normal retirement age per the contract, which is 60. You can take it earlier than 60 but I think it is at a cost of 1.5% per year younger than 60.

The B plan is a 12% match of your monthly gross pay starting at the end of the first year of probation. Based on minimum pay that's about $820 per month for 2d years and ramping up as you accrue seniority. Assuming a 10% return you'd have around 500k at the end of 20 years, not adjusted for inflation. In other words, you would have an amount equal to what 500k is worth today.

So as you can see it is still a bit lacking. 401k and IRAs are a must as well. The 2 week trips are plentiful on the intl fleets but not domestic. However, trading reserve days or trip trading is very common.

 

[PreContact]

A Plan is years of service X $3000. So 20 years would be 60K per year, but you can only collect it when you reach normal retirement age per the contract, which is 60. You can take it earlier than 60 but I think it is at a cost of 1.5% per year younger than 60.

Is it capped at 20 years? Or however many years you're there?

 

[2LT]

Not capped...

Years of service...

 

[PreContact]

Think I found my answer in the contract...max 30 yrs...

 

[capt. megadeth]

I don't even think about the A plan for myself. There's no way we will have it in 20+ years. If it's there....great, but I'm not planning on it.

 

[2LT]

30 years?

Huh, didn't realize it was limited. In any case, not counting on it...

 

[Coffee Pot]

Thanks for the info!

 

[Airbum]

A plan is 1% of the highest 5 out of last 10 years capped at 30 years of service. This plan is limited by the IRS limits (currentlly $220k?) the irs limit will supposedbly be inflation adjusted by the gov. UPS upward cap regardless of IRS input is $300k.

There is also a Flat rate of $3,000 per year for Captains or ex captains, $2,400 for First Officers $2100 for Flight Engineers(not rollbacks) all these are capped at 30 years and currently not inflation adjusted.

One would receive the higher amount of the above figures. The A plan is also somehow tied to the mgt's retirement plan so it is less likely to be erased then in the past.

The B plan is 12% of total wages up to the legal limit. (allowing I think $27k max contribution per year). One invests this money themselves and whatever return u get is what u get. I dont think its touchable until 60, (standby for possible changes when age 65 get here)

If a guy retired today with 20 years its 20 x $3000 = $ 60k. If a guy retires in 20 years from now the flat rate would possibly be less or equal to the irs limit. Soooo... currently 20% x current salary (or irs limit of 220k todays dollars) = in my guess $44k A plan in todays dollars. (Flat rate plan is not inflation adjusted and will have to be renegoitated). UPS pay is forcast to only adjust for inflation this contract.

B plan ? is a wild guess, just depends on how fast u upgrade and investment success.

I tried to keep this in todays dollars. Thats my public school take on it.

 

[mrvmo]

Why would there be NO way we will have the A plan down the road? I think really the only way we will NOT have an A plan it is if for some reason we as a union give it up (not likely), or if UPS goes bankrupt( Could happen sometime, but hopefully not.) Other than that I don't believe the A plan can be terminated.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Why would there be NO way we will have the A plan down the road? Other than that I don't believe the A plan can be terminated.

Uh huh.....suuuuuure.

I am sure guys at United thought there would be NO way to lose everything they lost back in the day.

 

[highsky]

Uh huh.....suuuuuure.

I am sure guys at United thought there would be NO way to lose everything they lost back in the day.

Generally speaking, I share your pessimism toward the continued viability of defined benefit pensions (A fund) in any industry, airline or otherwise.

That said, United has never come anywhere near the $4 billion profit that UPS made last year. Pax airlines all operate on thin profit margins, and are therefore much more vulnerable to difficult macroeconomic conditions. They look toward labor concessions when the going gets tough. It's like they're in a totally different industry. They just have airplanes in common.

 

[AC560]

That said, United has never come anywhere near the $4 billion profit that UPS made last year.

UPS though in fairness is a trucking company not an airline.

I would be working to get rid of my defined pension (if I had one) and its assets transfered to a 401K with a mandated company match going forward. You still get the benefit of a company provided pension with the added safety of controlling your own money; and being able to take it with you to your next job.

 

[Tanner]

Uh huh.....suuuuuure.

I am sure guys at United thought there would be NO way to lose everything they lost back in the day.

They lost their pension through the bankruptcy process, ruled by a judge. Mgmt. didn't just take it away! Now if you are implying that UPS will be bankrupt in coming years that's a different story. Hell' we can "IF" all day......."If the world runs out of oil", "If we are replaced with UAV's" If YOU get hit by a bus!"

 

[mrvmo]

They went bankrupt right?.......a senario I stated in which we COULD lose the benefit. The A plan is a contractual product that was fought for by those prior to us. It can only be lost in the two ways I stated earlier. Or if the company goes TU. (Again highly unlikely, but possible.)

 

[Aviator7576]

I think ups will go bankrupt the day after the federal government does. In fact, ups has never missed a payday; I can't say the same about the navy. The A plan at ups is the safest of any airlines (I know, it's all relative) and there would be an awful lot of hoops to jump through before anyone could make it just go away.

JMO

Aviator7576

 

[capt. megadeth]

Well, I hope you all are right. All I am saying is never say never and I definitely am not counting on getting it. If I do.....great! But I am not going to expect it to be there since I would not put anything past lawmakers and management.

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

Why would there be NO way we will have the A plan down the road? I think really the only way we will NOT have an A plan it is if for some reason we as a union give it up (not likely), or if UPS goes bankrupt( Could happen sometime, but hopefully not.) Other than that I don't believe the A plan can be terminated.

The US Congress could make a law saying that A plans are detrimental to the national interests of the US because they impede growth and continiued commerce. UPS is already lobbying to get pensions outlawed. I agree with them. How can US companies compete in a global environment if they are having to pay pensions to xx thousands of retirees that are no longer contributing? A plans will be outlawed in about 10-15 years and UPS knows it. Anyone under 50 thinking that they will have an A plan is in trouble.

I'd gladly trade my future A plan for an increase in my B plan (defined contribution plan.)

 

[720persecond]

The US Congress could make a law saying that A plans are detrimental to the national interests of the US because they impede growth and continiued commerce. UPS is already lobbying to get pensions outlawed. I agree with them. How can US companies compete in a global environment if they are having to pay pensions to xx thousands of retirees that are no longer contributing? A plans will be outlawed in about 10-15 years and UPS knows it. Anyone under 50 thinking that they will have an A plan is in trouble.

I'd gladly trade my future A plan for an increase in my B plan (defined contribution plan.)

You support "outlawing" a pension ?

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

You support "outlawing" a pension ?

You bet I do. The baby boomers are going to bankrupt our country. People are living a lot longer. When the baby boomers get into their 70s and 80s there will not be a way to pay the pensions of the thousands more each year retiring. UPS has something like 400,000 employees right now. Think about all of them on the payroll after they retire for 40-50 years. Companies would have to devote a heck of a lot of resources just to fund the pay of retirees. That's why in about 10 years Congress will bascially pass a law saying that as of this point forward pensions are done. We're already seeing buyouts at GM and Ford and other enormous companies once thought to be immune from bankruptcy.

Is it wrong? I think so. People will have the rug pulled from underneath them. But it is an economic fact. If companies have to fund pensions they will not be able to compete with Asian and European companies whose employees benefit from more socialist governments where taxes are outrageously high. UPS is spending a lot of money lobbying for this already. With B plans that money os in your name and nobody can touch it except you or a beneficiary.

 

[ptarmigan]

Wow, you should have gone into a different field! Scary.

You really think, for ONE second, that even if your dreams of outlawing pensions became reality, that they would actually apply to the baby boomers? The group that will represent THE largest voting block? Do you smoke crack?

I thought only the UPS pilots get any A fund anyway?

 

[AC560]

I'd gladly trade my future A plan for an increase in my B plan (defined contribution plan.)

And everyone who is smart should agree with you. Moving from a defined planned to a self managed plan doesn't mean any less benefits. It instead probably means more benefit, the opportunity to take it with you from one place to another, the ability to borrow that money out when I get furloughed and then pay myself back interest, and the guarantee that money is going to be there when I retire.

A defined and a 401K both get their funds from the same place, your paycheck (this isn't the companies money it is your money). Why anyone in this day and age would want a defined plan (short of a federal worker) is beyond me.

 

[PreContact]

And everyone who is smart should agree with you. Moving from a defined planned to a self managed plan doesn't mean any less benefits. It instead probably means more benefit, the opportunity to take it with you from one place to another, the ability to borrow that money out when I get furloughed and then pay myself back interest, and the guarantee that money is going to be there when I retire.

A defined and a 401K both get their funds from the same place, your paycheck (this isn't the companies money it is your money). Why anyone in this day and age would want a defined plan (short of a federal worker) is beyond me.

Great, but what happens when the economy tanks?

 

[AC560]

Great, but what happens when the economy tanks?

How do you think a defined pension works? They invest that money just the same as a 401K and if their investments tank you suffer. The difference is you get to make the choice where the money gets invested, not the pension coordinator.

There are no guarantees in life short of death and taxes, but you get more guarantees with a self managed plan.

 

[pony251]

2 week schedules

Coffee Pot, The two week schedules are alive and well if you want to sit reserve for the Airbus. I am starting a 2 week stint tonight. They also had them when I was on the -72. Being away for two weeks isn't the greatest but I got all the days off that i wanted. Basically, the two weeks off is vacation time if you want to look at it that way. I got 5 JA calls in the past 8 days as well. More opportunity to make some cash if you want the abuse on your time off.

 

[Aviator7576]

Aplan

LilJ...

Do you know what the max contribution to a B fund is for 2007? That combined with the 401k maximum (which generally increases by $500 each year) cannot exceed $45k per year. With the limitations of the B plan and 401k, we need to have an A plan to capture more retirement earnings. Unless they get rid of the limits for B plans and allow unlimited 401k contributions, it would be foolish to "dump" the A plan in any way, shape, or form. The fact that our plan is tied in with the manager's plan is a great incentive for ups not to do away with it.

As far as congress deciding that defined benefit pensions are not in the best interest of the economy, realize that it's a democratic congress in there now...not just high paid pilots get A plans.

JMO

Pilot7576

 

[AC560]

Unless they get rid of the limits for B plans and allow unlimited 401k contributions, it would be foolish to "dump" the A plan in any way, shape, or form.

The limitations are limited by the government (they maybe limited by UPS as well). So if you have a defined pension you can only put so much in a 401K, if you have only a 401K you are still limited as to how much you can contribute each year.

 

[HoursHore]

The limitations are limited by the government (they maybe limited by UPS as well). So if you have a defined pension you can only put so much in a 401K, if you have only a 401K you are still limited as to how much you can contribute each year.

Excactly, those who want to get rid of A Plans and go to all B plans, How Big do you think the Govt will allow the B Plan, 401 K contribution get before they start taking their bite? Not big enough to make up for the loss of an A Plan.

Also, a A Plan pays for itself when well managed and the company isn't borrowing from it.

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

Wow, you should have gone into a different field! Scary.

You really think, for ONE second, that even if your dreams of outlawing pensions became reality, that they would actually apply to the baby boomers? The group that will represent THE largest voting block? Do you smoke crack?

I thought only the UPS pilots get any A fund anyway?

You are right the boomers will benefit and most likely keep their pensions. Those born after 1960 will not have defined benefit plans.