Logging instrument time with the autopilot engaged?

[N60OSU]

Nice, now I need to clean the Pepsi off the computer screen.

And me off my cat!

To answer the original question I don't personally log IFR time if Otto is doing the flying. I don't pay particular attention to when begin hand flying, but I log .3 for each approach flown and .2 for each takeoff into a low overcast. I also don't log an approach unless I'm IFR inside the marker. My A/P can fly an approach but I really don't trust it enough to let it.

I don't know when airline profiles typically engage/disengage the A/P. In 135 I have the choice to use it or not at any point.

I'm certainly not saying you should not log if the A/P is on. Obviously the Feds consider it legit or they would stipulate that you may not log it if the autopilot is engaged. There was a time when I logged actual if I flew through a stray puffy cumulus.

I find that with the A/P on I'm pretty much monitoring the same parameters and devoting as much time to my crossword regardless of flight conditions. My logging parameters are borne more of my aspirations to fly charter or corporate. Some of those have mins for actual IFR and I want mine to reflect my actual flying by instruments experience.

 

[FlyHigher]

Now, can I log instrument time as the PNF? Or do I have to be the PF to log it? I mean, it is an airplane that needs two pilots. In other words, the regs do not cover multi-crew specifically. No person alone can be in control of a multi-crew airplane, that would be illegal (other than in an emergency). Any thoughts?

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Dude, as PNF you can log the conditions of flight. That being NIGHT, DAY, ACTUAL, or SIMULATED.

 

[727gm]

PNF's shouldn't log Instrument time unless instructing a non-instrument-qualified student/pilot, since you're not flying, or not the primary "autopilot monitor".

Those who do are shameless timebuilders.

 

[FlySacto]

Dude, as PNF you can log the conditions of flight. That being NIGHT, DAY, ACTUAL, or SIMULATED.

Sorry but this is a bit too much. I can log sim inst. as PNF???

 

[Vandal]

I quoted instrument, because this thread was about instrument time.

However, he says that he only logs time he's focused on flying for PIC, too. He says he's never logged an entire flight on the Trip7 since he got typed 9 years ago. Kinda interesting if yo uask me.

If that's true he's a huge toolbag and the only pilot in the world who does it...

 

[Vandal]

Who needs or gives a C@#P about instrument time.... ?????????

You win the thread...

 

[FlyHigher]

So, I can't log night time when I am not the PF?????????

 

[Amish RakeFight]

61.51 (b)(3)( i )and (ii) addresses pilot logbooks. Among other things required to be recorded for currency or aeronautical experience, it outlines the type of piloting experience which needs to be recorded. Listed under Conditions of flight are both night and day including any actual instrument conditions.

(3) Conditions of flight—
(i) Day or night.
(ii) Actual instrument.
(iii) Simulated instrument conditions in flight, a flight simulator, or a flight training device.

If you're logging time, any time, TT, whatever, as a SIC or PIC, PF or PNF, you will need to record the conditions of the flight.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Sorry but this is a bit too much. I can log sim inst. as PNF???

ummmm... well no, but think about it. I'm not going to tell you why your question makes no sense. But no, you can't.

 

[Motive Flow]

61.51 (b)(3)( i )and (ii) addresses pilot logbooks. Among other things required to be recorded for currency or aeronautical experience, it outlines the type of piloting experience which needs to be recorded. Listed under Conditions of flight are both night and day including any actual instrument conditions.





If you're logging time, any time, TT, whatever, as a SIC or PIC, PF or PNF, you will need to record the conditions of the flight.

So, I can only log Actual or Night when I am PF?:laugh:

 

[Amish RakeFight]

So, I can only log Actual or Night when I am PF?:laugh:

No, but you should get down to the local community college and retake some of those reading comprehension classes you missed out on.

 

[MALSR]

If you were flying a c172 single pilot in imc with the autopilot engaged you would definitely log instr. time.

 

[rickair7777]

I have a close friend who flies 777 long-haul for a carrier that I won't name on here. He is a line-check airman for his company, .so as one would surmise, quite a stickler to the rules! He told me that on a long-haul, even if he is the captain for the flight, he only logs time when he's flying the airplane, monitoring the instruments, or talking on the radio. If he is reading a newspaper/doing jepp updates/a book, eating a meal, even though he's sitting in the left seat, he won't log the time, as it is illegal. He won't log the time he's out of the cockpit in the bathroom, crew rest, out of his seat, etc. I had a hard time believeing it, but he has contacted both the FAA and JAA and they agree with him. He explained that the FAR:

14 CFR Part 61.51g
(g) Logging instrument flight time. (1) A person may log instrument time only for that flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions.

Says how you need to be referencing the instruments and operating the airplane, so if you're reading a book/magazine/jepp updates, eating a meal, or getting up to go to the bathroom, you cannot legally log it.

He says that on an average 12 hr flight, he'll end up logging ~5-6 hrs. Interesting stuff, but the authorities have his back, so I believe him.

This does not make any sense. If he is the CA, he MUST be the PIC during the entire flight, unless he is relieved for required crew rest by a PIC-rated relief pilot. And even then I think he can still log it.

 

[blueridge71]

I count all of my passenger time as PIC time. Am I in trouble?

PIC=Passenger In Cabin?

 

[DrewBlows]

If he is the CA, he MUST be the PIC during the entire flight...

He doesn't have to log anything except for currency. If he wants to log half the flight, all of the flight, or 10 minutes of the flight, that's his prerogative. I agree that it makes no sense, but he's not wrong, per se.

 

[bailey3083]

AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRR
RRRRRRGGGGGGGHHH
HHHHH!!!!!!
Not a again!!!

 

[idoitupsidedown]

Who needs or gives a C@#P about instrument time.... ?????????

The same guys who still log high performance and complex time

 

[olympus593]

You guy's are hardcore...In the last 6 year I have never hand flown an approach in in IMC but I'm still looging it, some of you really need to get a life are you all ex Riddle, Und, or Perdue?