ASA Negotiations

[HoserASA]

I'd just like something to vote on before we actually go on strike- maybe it would pass and maybe it wouldn't......but at least I'd feel like I had some say and control in it.

It doesn't work that here, or at any other ALPA-represented pilot group. ALL sections have to be TA'd, and then approved by the MEC. Then, at least at ASA, it goes out for a vote. Years ago we did not have the right to vote, and the MEC voted in a POS contract that the majority was against. Hence a resolution was passed that allows the membership (ALPA pilots at ASA) to vote whether they favor it or not, and the majority vote wins. You'll get your chance to see the contract and vote how you wish.

Hoser

 

[Snapperhead]

Years ago we did not have the right to vote, and the MEC voted in a POS contract that the majority was against. Hence a resolution was passed that allows the membership (ALPA pilots at ASA) to vote whether they favor it or not, and the majority vote wins. You'll get your chance to see the contract and vote how you wish.

Hoser

The same thing happened at Trans States back in 96'. Our POS MEC voted in a POS contract. I don't believe the pilot group even knew that could have happened. Good thing it can't happen at ASA now.

 

[Speedtape]

I'd just like something to vote on before we actually go on strike- maybe it would pass and maybe it wouldn't......but at least I'd feel like I had some say and control in it.

Patience! You will get your wish because that is how the process works--kind of! The compensation goals of the CNC are nothing more than what the compensation goals of the consensus of the ASA pilots are!

What the company is offering would not pass the vote! Well, they might get yours, but not the majority! The company's offer on the 50 rates would make you near the lowest in the industry. That's where they want you--they have stated it time and again!

This CNC and the MEC have not failed the pilot group in their charge! However, the pilot group has failed the MEC and the CNC, and therefore themselves! It's time for a little less talk, and alot more action! The results lie in YOUR hands!

 

[ASADriver]

This CNC and the MEC have not failed the pilot group in their charge! However, the pilot group has failed the MEC and the CNC, and therefore themselves! It's time for a little less talk, and alot more action! The results lie in YOUR hands!

Look here ASA pilots, ALPA is blaiming YOU the dues paying member who pays the salary of ALPA! I have heard this from more than one ALPA person that WE have failed them, yet if we dare question them we are attacked. We pay ALPA, and they have the nerve to blame this on us. No wonder ALPA is losing support.

 

[ASADriver]

Why can't the negotiators fly the line when there is a break? Is it too much to ask them to fly some?

 

[regionalcap]

Do you think they are still qualified after 4 years of not flying?
I would think that they have some retraining to do.

 

[ASADriver]

Do you think they are still qualified after 4 years of not flying?
I would think that they have some retraining to do.

Why do they dequal? Wouldn't it make more sense for them to stay current?

 

[Blucher]

Why can't the negotiators fly the line when there is a break? Is it too much to ask them to fly some?

Why do you care whether or not the negotiators "fly some?"

-Blucher

 

[regionalcap]

They would still have to do pro checks and recurrent ground. Is the company going to pay for that just for them to fly a trip once and a while?

 

[Blucher]

Why do they dequal? Wouldn't it make more sense for them to stay current?

Surely you've been around long enough to know that ASA and making sense just don't belong together. Wouldn't it also have made sense to not displace all those people a couple of months back? Of course, but that just ain't the ASA way!

-Blucher

 

[ASADriver]

Why do you care whether or not the negotiators "fly some?"

-Blucher

Because 2% of my paycheck goes to pay for their full time leave. With as little negotiating that has been going on, I don't think it too much to ask that they fly the line some. Why are you so opposed to them flying?

 

[ASADriver]

Surely you've been around long enough to know that ASA and making sense just don't belong together. Wouldn't it also have made sense to not displace all those people a couple of months back? Of course, but that just ain't the ASA way!

-Blucher

It isn't ASA that is keeping them from staying current. I believe they could stay current if they chose to. Why don't they want to stay current?

 

[Blucher]

Because 2% of my paycheck goes to pay for their full time leave. With as little negotiating that has been going on, I don't think it too much to ask that they fly the line some. Why are you so opposed to them flying?

I'm not opposed to them flying. Frankly, I couldn't care less whether or not they fly. Although I must admit, with this latest staffing pooch-screwing that management created for themselves is kind of fun to watch, and having those guys off line just adds to the amusement. Also, it means management has to hire more pilots (if they haven't already scared everyone away).
I don't see their not flying as a benefit in any way. If I were them I probably would have gone postal long ago. Can you actually imagine how much it must suck to work for these @ssholes and NOT get to fly?

-Blucher

 

[Blucher]

It isn't ASA that is keeping them from staying current. I believe they could stay current if they chose to. Why don't they want to stay current?

I assume this would be purely for the joy that is a PC? No possible way a good 'ole company check airman might give them an especially challenging PC, is there? Do a little checking into our lovely employer and you will quickly see how horribly corrupt and twisted a place it is. I'm guessing with that 737 type you've got listed, you already realize that and are also looking to move on to greener pastures.

-Blucher

 

[wms]

We are the one's that vote yes or no.

I should have clarified. This statement is in reference to when the company tries to tell us what will or won't be in the contract. The CNC negotiates the best contract they can, and if we like it we vote yes, and if not we vote no. If we turn one down it gives the CNC ammo when they go back to the table and tell the company what is or isn't acceptable to the pilots.

 

[ASADriver]

Can you actually imagine how much it must suck to work for these @ssholes and NOT get to fly?

-Blucher

Well I believe the two senior guys on the negotiating committee are making about $120,000 per year and aren't doing much right now. I wouldn't say that "sucks". It is much better than I am doing.

 

[ASADriver]

I assume this would be purely for the joy that is a PC? No possible way a good 'ole company check airman might give them an especially challenging PC, is there? Do a little checking into our lovely employer and you will quickly see how horribly corrupt and twisted a place it is.

-Blucher

Are you implying that our instructors would actually fail a member of the negotiating committee because of politics? I believe our instructors are some of the best in the business and would never allow politics to cloud their judgement. Isn't instructor pay one of the things they are fighting for? Why would an instructor fail someone who is fighting for higher instructor pay?

 

[Blucher]

Well I believe the two senior guys on the negotiating committee are making about $120,000 per year and aren't doing much right now. I wouldn't say that "sucks". It is much better than I am doing.

Once again, I'm afraid we're just going to have to agree to disagree. Yes, I'd like to have their pay checks, but no, I wouldn't put up with their headaches just to get it. You can make a bundle selling people too, but like I said, that management/slave master mentality has just never really sat right with me. Perhaps you can try to get a job as a negotiator. At this rate there's a good chance more of ours will have to retire before management is forced into giving us what we deserve (remember we are the most profitable regional in the country).

-Blucher

 

[wms]

Well I believe the two senior guys on the negotiating committee are making about $120,000 per year and aren't doing much right now. I wouldn't say that "sucks". It is much better than I am doing.

You could say the same for the company's former contract administrator, and the current one if that position still exists..

 

[ASADriver]

Once again, I'm afraid we're just going to have to agree to disagree. Yes, I'd like to have their pay checks, but no, I wouldn't put up with their headaches just to get it.

-Blucher

And we don't have "headaches" flying the line? Flying out of ATL is a daily headache - sorry, but no sympathy. We all have headaches, and flying the line isn't exactly a picnic!

 

[Blucher]

Are you implying that our instructors would actually fail a member of the negotiating committee because of politics? I believe our instructors are some of the best in the business and would never allow politics to cloud their judgement. Isn't instructor pay one of the things they are fighting for? Why would an instructor fail someone who is fighting for higher instructor pay?

Sentence by sentence:
1) Yes.
2) I absolutely agree that is correct for the majority of them, unfortunately not all.
3) Yes, but most instructors believe they will be "thrown under the bus" for the greater good and many are already planning on quitting the dept if/when that happens. Sadly, it's the really good instructors that will likely leave. The few remaining psychos (alla JG's E120 regime), will stay because they enjoy telling others they are wrong.
4) Perhaps due to a promise from higher ups that a more desirable post may become available if they "play ball."

 

[ASADriver]

You could say the same for the company's former contract administrator, and the current one if that position still exists..

Yes I could, and I would say the same about them - it doesn't "suck" like Blucher says it does. How many days a week are they working to get that $120,000 per year? How many nights are they spending on the road like the rest of us?

 

[ASADriver]

Sentence by sentence:
1) Yes.
2) I absolutely agree that is correct for the majority of them, unfortunately not all.
3) Yes, but most instructors believe they will be "thrown under the bus" for the greater good and many are already planning on quitting the dept if/when that happens. Sadly, it's the really good instructors that will likely leave. The few remaining psychos (alla JG's E120 regime), will stay because they enjoy telling others they are wrong.
4) Perhaps due to a promise from higher ups that a more desirable post may become available if they "play ball."

You may or may not be right. If you are right, and I don't think you are, then I don't want to go on strike for a department that would actually fail someone because of politics. Therefor, if you are right, and again I don't think you are, then we should quit fighting for the instructors.

 

[Blucher]

You may or may not be right. If you are right, and I don't think you are, then I don't want to go on strike for a department that would actually fail someone because of politics. Therefor, if you are right, and again I don't think you are, then we should quit fighting for the instructors.

Thankfully the vast majority are great, and I agree with you that they are very much worth fighting for. However, I have seen some of the bad apples at work, and quite frankly it ain't pretty. On a side note, you seem to have a fairly defeatest theme going that you might want to change before you go to your next interview. Good luck to you. Hopefully someday we'll both be arguing about how to do things elsewhere.

-Blucher

 

[FightingIrish]

AG, you are kidding, right? Blackballing people? Physically threatening people? Never come out from hiding? Oh please!
W. Faruzzi

Will, I think you missed OhPlease's point. It is called "sarcasm". The ALPA chestbeaters are the ones who talk about "blackballing" people, and telling people they won't get hired if they don't do what ALPA says. Most of us realize it is an idle threat.

I am an ALPA supporter and an ALPA volunteer. I have also been "threatened" by ALPA people for picking up open time. I'm not that worried about the "threats".

 

[shamrock]

Yes I could, and I would say the same about them -

But you don't. Why not?

I have heard this from more than one ALPA person that WE have failed them, yet if we dare question them we are attacked.

You've made it abundantly clear that in your mind ALPA is evil and that they are somehow slighting you at every opportunity, so don't try to pass off what you do as "questioning". Questioning implies that you are searching for answers in an attempt to form an opinion, and anyone who's read your posts would see that that you've already made up your mind.

 

[ASARJMan]

And we don't have "headaches" flying the line? Flying out of ATL is a daily headache - sorry, but no sympathy. We all have headaches, and flying the line isn't exactly a picnic!

Ooh poor friggin' baby asadrivel! Daily headache my god! Do you even have a clue to life you loser!

STRIKE ASA!

 

[Smacktard]

Well I believe the two senior guys on the negotiating committee are making about $120,000 per year and aren't doing much right now. I wouldn't say that "sucks". It is much better than I am doing.

What's stopping you then? If it's so easy, run for office next go-round and get in on the gravy train.

 

[doh]

It is about time ASA pilots stop picking up up open time, start calling in sick and yes set a day to walk out. Our union is apparently not effective and the company is going to continue in its way. And yes this would be a job action, guess what this place is not all that good to work here anyway.

I don't know about the walking off the job part without being released, but the no overtime and sick calls are way overdue!

 

[Crash Pad]

What's stopping you then? If it's so easy, run for office next go-round and get in on the gravy train.

I think I read in some ALPA mail you only have to swing 70 some votes to become MEC. Next election I declare now that I'm running. My poster is going to say Vote for me I want a lap on the gravy train!