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Logging instrument time with the autopilot engaged?

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STL717

STL717

CL-215 Lake James, NC
Joined
Jun 3, 2003
Posts
251
Logging instrument time with the autopilot engaged?


Since logging PIC from the right seat is such a big discussion, what about all the instrument time you logged while the autopilot was engaged?

FAR 61
(g) Logging instrument flight time.
(1) A person may log instrument time only for that flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions.

The FAR clearly states the person is operating the aircraft solely by reference to instruments. You didn’t log all that instrument time with the autopilot engaged did you?
 
STL717 said:
Logging instrument time with the autopilot engaged?


Since logging PIC from the right seat is such a big discussion, what about all the instrument time you logged while the autopilot was engaged?

FAR 61
(g) Logging instrument flight time.
(1) A person may log instrument time only for that flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions.

The FAR clearly states the person is operating the aircraft solely by reference to instruments. You didn’t log all that instrument time with the autopilot engaged did you?
Click to expand...

The PF monitors the AP. That counts as operating the aircraft, this is nothing new and is clearly allowed by past precedent and interpretation.

As long as you meet all the other requirements for logging IFR, you can log it with the AP on.

Where do you think 100,000 airline pilots get their IFR time???
 
OMG this is an asinine argument...how is using the autopilot not operating the airplane??? Of course you can log instrument time.
 
STL717 said:
Logging instrument time with the autopilot engaged?


Since logging PIC from the right seat is such a big discussion, what about all the instrument time you logged while the autopilot was engaged?

FAR 61
(g) Logging instrument flight time.
(1) A person may log instrument time only for that flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions.

The FAR clearly states the person is operating the aircraft solely by reference to instruments. You didn’t log all that instrument time with the autopilot engaged did you?
Click to expand...

oh brother...

Why did I click on this thread? :rolleyes:
 
STL717 said:
Logging instrument time with the autopilot engaged?


Since logging PIC from the right seat is such a big discussion, what about all the instrument time you logged while the autopilot was engaged?

FAR 61
(g) Logging instrument flight time.
(1) A person may log instrument time only for that flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions.

The FAR clearly states the person is operating the aircraft solely by reference to instruments. You didn’t log all that instrument time with the autopilot engaged did you?
Click to expand...

I'm operating the aircraft through the autopilot....whats your point?
 
I...what the f*ck....o nevermind
 
Do any of you guys log the time you're in the crapper on the airplane?

I mean, unless you are p!ssing your pants or soiling your shorts you're not in the cockpit, so how can you in good conscience log that time? I'd have a good 3 or 4 hours more if I logged it, and considering how valuable 121 SIC time is (especially since I only have about 4000 hours of it) I really wish I could.
 
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I need help here... May I log flight time if I have my head plunged deep up inside my anus? AAnd would that be "instruments" since I have no outside visual references?!? Thanks guys.
 
With almost 20K hours, you've got a lot of correcting to do, but I'm sure you're probably on your way out of this industry anyways.

Instrument time (as qualified by the FAA) can be logged when appropriate, even if the AP is flying the plane. As the pilot (or person) you are operating the aircraft via an AP.
 
Just becasue the AP is doing all of the grunt work, you're still supposed (as opposed to reading the local paper) to be monitoring it to see that it corresponds to specific flight parameters. You're still flying or operating the aircraft and when you do encounter instrument conditions, you theoretically should be keeping up with the AP's operation. All these bells and whistles modern planes have may be described as backup systems to what you should yourself be paying attention to. They serve not only as warnings but as reminders that something just ain't right.
 
CRJ puppy said:
I need help here... May I log flight time if I have my head plunged deep up inside my anus? AAnd would that be "instruments" since I have no outside visual references?!? Thanks guys.
Click to expand...

Don't forget to log it as night also. Unless you have a light bulb shoved up your ass at the same time.
 
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Did the floodgates from airliners.net open up here or something. Recently there have been the most assine post on this board and its getting worse.
 
OH MY GOD!!!!

It is like a retard convention in here!!!!!!!!
 
If I am sitting on the john looking at the weather package/release I am performing Pilot in Command duties (doodie) and therefore log it. You know, kind of like billable hours and lawyers. 'cause them hours is hard to get
 
I have a close friend who flies 777 long-haul for a carrier that I won't name on here. He is a line-check airman for his company, .so as one would surmise, quite a stickler to the rules! He told me that on a long-haul, even if he is the captain for the flight, he only logs time when he's flying the airplane, monitoring the instruments, or talking on the radio. If he is reading a newspaper/doing jepp updates/a book, eating a meal, even though he's sitting in the left seat, he won't log the time, as it is illegal. He won't log the time he's out of the cockpit in the bathroom, crew rest, out of his seat, etc. I had a hard time believeing it, but he has contacted both the FAA and JAA and they agree with him. He explained that the FAR:

14 CFR Part 61.51g
(g) Logging instrument flight time. (1) A person may log instrument time only for that flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions.

Says how you need to be referencing the instruments and operating the airplane, so if you're reading a book/magazine/jepp updates, eating a meal, or getting up to go to the bathroom, you cannot legally log it.

He says that on an average 12 hr flight, he'll end up logging ~5-6 hrs. Interesting stuff, but the authorities have his back, so I believe him.
 
What about when you blink?


In the millisecond it takes for you to blink, you are no longer looking at the flight controls, nor are you manipulating the controls with your eyes closed.


Can I log PIC during the time my eyes are shut when I blink?
 
dickburns said:
I have a close friend who flies 777 long-haul for a carrier that I won't name on here. He is a line-check airman for his company, .so as one would surmise, quite a stickler to the rules! He told me that on a long-haul, even if he is the captain for the flight, he only logs time when he's flying the airplane, monitoring the instruments, or talking on the radio. If he is reading a newspaper/doing jepp updates/a book, eating a meal, even though he's sitting in the left seat, he won't log the time, as it is illegal. He won't log the time he's out of the cockpit in the bathroom, crew rest, out of his seat, etc. I had a hard time believeing it, but he has contacted both the FAA and JAA and they agree with him. He explained that the FAR:

14 CFR Part 61.51g
(g) Logging instrument flight time. (1) A person may log instrument time only for that flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions.

Says how you need to be referencing the instruments and operating the airplane, so if you're reading a book/magazine/jepp updates, eating a meal, or getting up to go to the bathroom, you cannot legally log it.

He says that on an average 12 hr flight, he'll end up logging ~5-6 hrs. Interesting stuff, but the authorities have his back, so I believe him.
Click to expand...



Huh?


You're quoting when a pilot may log INSTRUMENT time.


You quoted the wrong reg.

If your friend is the Captain of a 777, then he will log PIC time DURING the flight, even if he is in the sh*tter. If he leaves Dubai and lands at London for a total flight time of 7 hours, then he better log 7 hours.

Now for the INSTRUMENT flight time during those 7 hours, then that's different.

Then you can use that reg you referred to.
 
I quoted instrument, because this thread was about instrument time.

However, he says that he only logs time he's focused on flying for PIC, too. He says he's never logged an entire flight on the Trip7 since he got typed 9 years ago. Kinda interesting if yo uask me.
 
LowlyPropCapt said:
oh brother...

Why did I click on this thread? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I'm thinking the same thing.... but here goes: The best way to get instrument time in a RJ is to bring a hood/foggles along and ask the CA to watch out for traffic while you fly... then be sure to get his name and cert. for the remarks section. Sometimes I even keep the hood on to minnimums just so I can log the approach too.
 
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Flyer1015 said:
What about when you blink?


In the millisecond it takes for you to blink, you are no longer looking at the flight controls, nor are you manipulating the controls with your eyes closed.


Can I log PIC during the time my eyes are shut when I blink?
Click to expand...

What a stupid question.... everyone knows that you MUST subtract .1 for every hour as a result of blinking. If you have dry eyes, and blink a lot..... I'd go with .2 just to avoid any questions at your next interview.
 
CaptainChris77 said:
What a stupid question.... everyone knows that you MUST subtract .1 for every hour as a result of blinking. If you have dry eyes, and blink a lot..... I'd go with .2 just to avoid any questions at your next interview.
Click to expand...



Oh ok, phew! I'm safe then. I always take off .1 every hour for blinking.
 
Vandal said:
OMG this is an asinine argument...how is using the autopilot not operating the airplane??? Of course you can log instrument time.
Click to expand...

Yeah, no kidding.

First time flying a plane with an autopilot kimo-sabe? Here's a hint . . . if you bust an altitude or fly into the ground (and survive), see how far the:

"I wasn't flying . . . it was the Autopilot!" will get you with the FAA.


Sheesh.
 

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