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CMR MEC Unanimous in Not supporting the RJDC

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FDJ2

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 9, 2003
Posts
3,908
These excerpts are from a sworn statement from a senior CMR MEC Officer.

"Based on my experience as Comair MEC Chair and my oversight as a member of ALPA’s Executive Council, ALPA does not discriminate against pilots at smaller carriers or Comair in particular."

"It has been my observation and experience that all ALPA pilot groups, regardless of size or the type of aircraft that they fly, receive the full support of the Association whenever they need it."

"Because Delta’s plans for DCI consistently called for growth, in the
immediate aftermath of the events of September 11, 2001, no Comair pilots were furloughed, while more than 1,500 Delta pilots were furloughed. Although a relatively small number of Comair pilots were furloughed shortly after Delta and Comair filed for bankruptcy in 2005, no Comair or ASA pilots are currently furloughed today, while Delta pilots remain on furlough.
Delta pilots did lose a significant portion of their flying after the events of September 11, but Comair and ASA pilots did not. Instead, Comair and ASA pilots received upgrade and advancement opportunities as new and larger (70-seat) small jet aircraft were introduced to their fleets by Delta during this period."

"No one from my MEC expressed the view that I should take Captain Ford’s concerns to the Executive Council or any other higher ALPA governing body, nor did I believe such steps should be taken. I held that view because the scope provisions that were negotiated did not take away our work (rather, they allowed Delta to continue to grow its DCI operations) and that the provisions were successively liberalized over time."

"Additionally, I viewed the provisions as striking a balance between the interests of the Delta pilots (in securing their work) and pilots at Delta Connection carriers in continuing to experience growth and better work opportunities. In each and every case concerning the correspondence identified above, I believed that Captain Woerth was handling these issues correctly, and that he properly responded to Captain Ford. To my knowledge, no one serving on the Executive Council expressed any views to the contrary."

"At the conclusion of the most recent round of bargaining between Delta
and its pilots which resulted in LOA 51, I received a letter in my capacity as Comair MEC Chair from Captain Ford dated May 8, 2006, the day before the start of a planned MEC meeting. In that letter, addressed to the Comair MEC, Captain Ford enclosed a letter he had written several days earlier to President Woerth, which asserted that LOA 51 violated ALPA’s Constitution, By-Laws and policies. This letter also submitted a proposed MEC resolution requesting that our MEC seek a formal hearing of Captain Ford’s complaints about LOA 51 before the Executive Council. True and correct copies of this letter and proposed resolution are attached as Exhibit 1 hereto. After review and discussion by our MEC, none of the elected representatives supported Captain Ford’s position."
 
Alpa

Let's not forget that it was ALPA that signed off on the MESA contract that you all love to make fun of all the time to get rid of the alter ego aka Freedom. So if all being equal why did we not have the support from our union brothers knowing that ALPA was condoning this as the best for us as well? So how can we all be equal? I want to be equal but we at Mesa get our chops busted all the time. How can you support both sides?
 
Too late Lawson.........
pilo

"Bill," I know you hate all Comair pilots, but I don't think this has anything to do with "too late." This isn't a new position, and the Comair MEC hasn't ever sided with the RJDC. Not that I'm saying the CMEC hasn't made serious mistakes, but I dont think this is JC covering his mistakes. This has been a long standing position of the CMEC (you've heard that one before.)

Also, I think you should know that the RDJC lawsuit has only seven (I think) plantiffs, out of over 3,000 pilots at ASA and Comair. Also, I would say the number of monetary supporters is under 100. The vast majority of the Comair pilots don't support the RJDC because most of us want to move on from Comair, to the mainline QOL. Remember, Dan Ford and the RJDC are a private group, so don't hold the entire group hostage for his lawsuit, because there isn't a resolution or a vote that the rank-and-file could push to stop it.

Regretably, we have made serious mistakes in the past by the inaction of the rank-and-file. I could offer some excuses/reasons for that, but I'm sure you don't want to hear it, and I'm sure it wouldn't matter.
 
pilo



Regretably, we have made serious mistakes in the past by the inaction of the rank-and-file. I could offer some excuses/reasons for that, but I'm sure you don't want to hear it, and I'm sure it wouldn't matter.

Quite a true statement.........the first admittance on this forum........and yes, it does matter......thanks for the open words!!

The wrongs won't be corrected, but statements like you made above makes the road smoother
 
pilo

This isn't a new position, and the Comair MEC hasn't ever sided with the RJDC.

The position of the CMR MEC sure did mirror that of the RJDC when it came to slamming the door in the face of furloughed ALPA pilots. It also seems like many of the rank and file passively went along with the RJDC crusade. If the RJDC failed, as it appears to be doing, they could always claim that they weren't involved, if the RJDC succeeeded, they could compete on the 777 RFP, if their costs were competitive with the other bidders of course.

Regardless, I do agree that the CMR MEC has come a long way and is now distancing themselves from the RJDC, which only represents a rogue group of malcontents.
 
Last edited:
The position of the CMR MEC sure did mirror that of the RJDC when it came to slamming the door in the face of furloughed ALPA pilots. It also seems like many of the rank and file passively went along with the RJDC crusade. If the RJDC failed, as it appears to be doing, they could always claim that they weren't involved, if the RJDC succeeeded, they could compete on the 777 RFP, if their costs were competitive with the other bidders of course.

Regardless, I do agree that the CMR MEC has come a long way and is now distancing themselves from the RJDC, which only represents a rogue group of malcontents.
I don't remember anything being written where the RJDC took a position on the hiring of furloughed Delta pilots, but I could be wrong. Do you have anything?

The CMR MEC looked for something in exchange for negotiating with Management to change a long standing policy requiring the relinquishement of seniority rights at another airline. The Delta MEC basically said "no" this is a cram down.

Well, Comair needed brand scope - something the Delta pilots could have helped with and should have helped with. Now ALPA is getting crushed on the CMR property and Delta pilots (at least some of them) are gloating.

I don't see why asking to helping eachother out is grounds for eternal damnation. I'm not a Comair Pilot and perhaps have something to gain by your vehemence aimed at all things Comair, but historically, Lawson was probably right about what would have beeb best for our union.

Further, when Lawson put up the PID, the result would have been:
  1. All Delta flying performed by Delta pilots
  2. Perfect scope
  3. Delta's MEC would have had all the votes
  4. Delta's MEC would have had all the power
  5. You would have had over 4,000 pilots on the list beneath you
  6. No Comair Strike that cost Delta 600 million dollars ($337,000 per pilot)
  7. The ability to grow Delta (and Delta's seniority list) with the right sized airplanes instead of a bunch of expensive 50 seaters.
But, your MEC Chair killed this because he did not know how he could get his military buddies on board at the mainline level if we had one list.

I think your anger is misplaced.
 
pilo

"Bill," I know you hate all Comair pilots, but I don't think this has anything to do with "too late." This isn't a new position, and the Comair MEC hasn't ever sided with the RJDC. Not that I'm saying the CMEC hasn't made serious mistakes, but I dont think this is JC covering his mistakes. This has been a long standing position of the CMEC (you've heard that one before.)
Mike:
You're wrong. The CMEC's side has mirrored that of the rjdc position.

Also, I think you should know that the RDJC lawsuit has only seven (I think) plantiffs, out of over 3,000 pilots at ASA and Comair.
The unsilent minority!

Also, I would say the number of monetary supporters is under 100. The vast majority of the Comair pilots don't support the RJDC because most of us want to move on from Comair, to the mainline QOL. Remember, Dan Ford and the RJDC are a private group, so don't hold the entire group hostage for his lawsuit, because there isn't a resolution or a vote that the rank-and-file could push to stop it.
There could be more outspoken opposition to this. That being said, you're right.

Regretably, we have made serious mistakes in the past by the inaction of the rank-and-file. I could offer some excuses/reasons for that, but I'm sure you don't want to hear it, and I'm sure it wouldn't matter.
Mike:
That's well put. And it actually might make wounds heal. Now that things are turning around in the industry, it would nice to start the healing process.

737
 
I don't remember anything being written where the RJDC took a position on the hiring of furloughed Delta pilots, but I could be wrong. Do you have anything?
MICHAEL S. HABER
ATTORNEY AT LAW
225 Broadway, 39th floor
New York, New York 10007


December 31, 2001
Mr. Don Osmundson
Vice President, Flight Operations
Comair, Inc.
77 Comair Blvd.
Erlanger, KY 41018
Re: Employment Opportunities for
Furloughed Delta Pilots____
Dear Mr. Osmundson,
I write on behalf of my clients, who are dedicated Comair pilots, in the hope
that Comair management will value the opinions of its loyal pilots with regard to
Delta management’s interest in having Comair consider hiring some of Delta's
furloughed pilots.
As you know, several Comair pilots whom I represent (with the support and
encouragement of hundreds of their colleagues) commenced litigation against ALPA in
an effort to compel the union to uphold its obligations to its members in the service
of Comair. The lawsuit addresses many issues, including the deleterious effects of
the Delta scope clauses and the Delta MEC’s past efforts to negotiate special
employment rights for Delta pilots at ASA and Comair.
In the case of furloughed pilots, my clients remain concerned that the
Company’s operational needs may require that special terms and conditions be set for
their employment and subsequent recall at Delta.
In view of our position that the furloughs are at least partly a result of the
selfsame scope language only recently negotiated by the Delta MEC, any viable
solution must include the renegotiation of the scope provisions. We also contend
that if ALPA or the Delta MEC wishes to address employment opportunities at Comair
for Delta furloughees, such activities must coincide with obligations owed to the
Comair pilots.
While we can certainly appreciate that Comair may initially regard litigation
by pilots against ALPA as strictly an internal union matter, we urge that Comair do
everything possible to convey to those who may be involved in such discussions that
furlough relief involving Comair should be part of a comprehensive solution that
protects both Comair and its pilots.
Thank you for your courtesies in considering this matter. Should you wish to
discuss this, I will make myself available to you or to Comair’s counsel at any time.
Very truly yours,
/s/
Michael S. Haber
cc: Captain Daniel Ford
Captain Jesse Ashcraft
Captain Kent Dobbins



Further, when Lawson put up the PID, the result would have been:
  1. All Delta flying performed by Delta pilots.
The result would have been nothing, since DAL is not and was not obligated to merge seniority lists since there was no contractual requirement to do so. The CMR MEC Chairman agrees that the PID request was improper.
 
They will take several million...

out of ALPA nationals bank account, thats what a win would get them. Could be a long shot but they've tied up three $200K /yr ALPA lawyers.
 
out of ALPA nationals bank account, thats what a win would get them. Could be a long shot but they've tied up three $200K /yr ALPA lawyers.


They will lose big time. I think the RJDC should sue the NY Port Authority next, since they want less RJs at LGA. That could severely hurt some poor RJ Captains career! (Like 9rj9--a lifer and unhappy)


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

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