CE750 at NJA

[realityman]

FLYLOW, crossing the numbers at REF speed doesn't mean you have to get on the brakes at SFO and come to a screeching halt in the first 2000 feet. I agree, that'll create a bit of friction with the controllers. But I hardly see how using the proper speeds on approach and landing, by themselves, would cause any problems.

I don't hear about our Ultra pilots being yelled at regularly by the SFO controllers, and the REF speeds of that plane are significantly slower than those of the X (I started in the Ultra, so I've got a pretty good idea what they are). A typical REF speed in the X is around 112-115kts. Typical in the Ultra is about 103. So if we need to fly the X at REF + 10 to keep the controllers happy at SFO, are you saying our Ultra boys need to cross the numbers at REF + 20, or more, to make them happy? That's a little out there. What's wrong with REF across the numbers, and then just idle reverse and light braking until passing the 1's at SFO? All good technique.

As for not always flying the SOP's and AFM numbers quite so literally all the time, I agree. Hence the reason I don't use the AFM recommended x-wind landing technique. I think it's dangerous and hard on the plane and everyone else.

Fozzy, who said anything about flying the approach at REF + 10 far from the runway. I think crossing the FAF and configured for landing would be a good time to slow to the proper approach speed, but that's typically only 5-8 miles from the runway. I'm not sure about maintaining high speeds until just a few miles from the runway though. Does slowing from REF + 40 to REF just 3 miles from the runway count as a stabilized approach?

Anyway, fly it like you know how. Different strokes for different folks. I expect as long as we don't ball one up, one technique is as good as another.

 

[skiandsurf]

It looks like I hit a nerve on this one. All this talk about Ref speeds, bank angles and whatever else....who cares. All I was trying to say is straighten it out just before touchdown.

If I am flying into 28R at SFO, who cares if I cross the numbers at Ref+30. Now if I am going into SMO, I am going to get it slowed up.

I am not watching the amount of bank angle. I am FLYING. Remember, that is what we get paid to do, Fly the airplane.

My brief, "keep us off of headline news".

 

[FLYLOW22]

My brief, "keep us off of headline news".

Unless we are sponsoring another horse race, boat gala or purchase another 1000 airframes anyway...

 

[realityman]

ski....what's wrong with discussing technique on an aviation forum? Obviously, I have ways I'd like to see it done, and others have ways they prefer to do it. We make our cases and others respond. It's called a "discussion".

As for flying the plane, I always thought being aware of speeds and bank angles and such in conditions where they are important was part of flying. Hey, I'm all for seat-of-the-pants flying. Heck, I've got two planes myself that are equipped only for basic VFR. Good fun! And no fancy instrumentation to help me with bank angles and speeds except for my eyeballs and an airspeed indicator that doesn't work very well.

But those aren't the planes I'm flying for work. I don't think anybody stares at the ADI or airspeed indicator through the flare and touchdown, but I have glanced down to find out what the typical deck angles are just prior to touchdown. In the X it can be important. It's nice to know how much bank angle I have to work with. A little knowledge and all that......

And I completely agree with you: straighten the doggone thing out before you touch down!

 

[gunfyter]

Its easy to land the X ... once you get used to it. But initially it made me feel like a new flight student going around the patch for the first time.

Many people find it a challenge at first. Not everyone but many. Its few people who don't get a Red Screen at least once in the sim on the V1 cut.

 

[Fozzy]

Does slowing from REF + 40 to REF just 3 miles from the runway count as a stabilized approach?

Again, I fly the ultra. And this is very easy. Hell you can be at ref+ a lot at 1000', pull to idle and be adding power to make the runway. I know that is not possible in the X

 

[pdub20s]

i agree, straighten the plane out before touchdown. Like my CFI instructor Frank Varsolona says, "dont land all cadiwhompas"

 

[skiandsurf]

ski....what's wrong with discussing technique on an aviation forum?

I agree that discussion is a good thing.

My other gripe is some (most) of these captains are really hard on the planes while taxiing. Jerky turns and braking. And they rarely follow the rampers directions.

 

[Fozzy]

And they rarely follow the rampers directions.

If you follow most rampers you may end up on a runway or in a swamp. FBO rampers do not have a clue.

 

[SCT]

Do you NJ guys/ gals ever do flap 15' for landing w/ strong gusty x-winds? Or does NJ not allow it? It seems to allow alot more rudder authority and flatter deck angle w/ only a 5-7 knt increase in ref. Our department uses it all the time if the runway length is allowable.

Just curious-

 

[Archie Bunker]

Do you NJ guys/ gals ever do flap 15' for landing w/ strong gusty x-winds? Or does NJ not allow it? It seems to allow alot more rudder authority and flatter deck angle w/ only a 5-7 knt increase in ref. Our department uses it all the time if the runway length is allowable.

Just curious-

We just did a flaps 15 landing yesterday.......not for gusty winds though. We had a Hyd A low quantity, and had to blow the gear down. The emerg pneumatic brakes worked like a champ too! I think our ref speed was only 120....not a whole lot of difference from a full flaps landing. Lots of fun being towed off the runway!

 

[gunfyter]

Yes... I did Flaps 15 landings strong gusty xwinds.