Fox News and age 60

[m80drvr]

The Fox News ticker is saying that the FAA is close to releasing it's decision on raising the retirement age to 65. For some reason Fox believes this is important enough for the national news. Go figure.

I thought this was dead for now. The drama continues.

Any bets on what they will decide? Any thoughts for you Andy?

 

[TheDogsBollocks]

Saw the ticker on Fox News then went to this forum so find the skivvy on it, no luck.

As I've mentioned earlier, there is no real medical issue why part 121 pilots have to retire at 60 and the proposed new rules seem quite reasonable.

However, those opposed to eliminating age 60 always tend to argue from the "politics of the profession standpoint".

e.g. "You knew what the retirement age was when you got into this career".

"It's your fault you didn't plan for your retirement properly and now your pension has been cut".

"You're going to screw up my upgrade you selfish a**hole".

etc,etc,etc!

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

However, those opposed to eliminating age 60 always tend to argue from the "politics of the profession standpoint".

e.g. "You knew what the retirement age was when you got into this career".

"It's your fault you didn't plan for your retirement properly and now your pension has been cut".

"You're going to screw up my upgrade you selfish a**hole".

etc,etc,etc!

So I guess those don't count in your mind??

 

[BiffF15]

I have also heard all the arguements, and would like to see it stay at 60 for the sole reason I don't want to work beyond that. However I think it will come down to age discrimination and nothing else. While it may be dead for now I also think it will come up again and again until it matches ICAO.

 

[Captain X]

I have also heard all the arguements, and would like to see it stay at 60 for the sole reason I don't want to work beyond that.

I don't really have a stance either way (I like the way it feels when I'm sitting on the fence), but what would prevent you from quitting at 60 if the retirement age was 65?

 

[Phaedrus]

Nothing, except management would ding your retirement severely. Count on it.

 

[filejw]

More like the IRS, they rule pension benefits and rules.

 

[Ty Webb]

Nothing, except management would ding your retirement severely. Count on it.

Bingo!!!

"Well, now that you have 5 more years you can work, we plan to reduce that 10.5% retirement fund contribution to 8.5% . . . in the end, you'll have even more in your retirement fund!".

. . . . Of course, you'll have to work another 5 of your remaining years away, but just think of all the losers you will be helping to feel like they are still relevant . . . . . Yep, while you labor for an additional five years in the right seat, your Captains will be putting on their "cataract glasses" and "sansabelt uniform pants" and orthopedic black shoes for another half a decade of service.

I can hardly wait. . . . thank God I already upgraded.
.

 

[Big Duke Six]

The easier solution would be to change the IRS and SSec rules to allow you to retire at 60 since the FAA requires it under current law. Then, no one gets hurt, except the gov't, so it will never happen.

Everyone is sympathetic to the pro-change crowd, but while they stand to make hundreds of thousands off the deal, I stand to lose hundreds of thousands, plus interest.

That's really all this is about. It's like winning the lotto for them, and they want it so bad they can smell it.

I on the other hand, bought a ticket but didn't win, only now it means I'll have to work 5 more years to make up for what I've lost. I'll be lucky if I break even.

 

[CitationLover]

where is congressional (sen. inhofe) outrage over the FAA's controllers and their mandatory retirement age?

 

[TheDogsBollocks]

So I guess those don't count in your mind??

Depending on your disposition I suppose they could, however, our profession is in a constant state of change and the age 60 retirement age will probably be one of those changes.

To those who have no desire to be working after 60, if age 65 is approved you can always resign upon reaching 60 and live out your remaining years in bliss, unfortunately due to recent events some people will need to work the extra years to get financially back on track.

What can be said with certainty is that there is no way you are going to please everybody with this one.

 

[pilot141]

Umm...to get outrage you have to have pissed off constituents. Since the controllers are looking at a federal pension when they hit 55 I don't expect to see them pissed off. A government (especially federal) pension is the closest thing to untouchable we have in the US. Would YOU bitch about a full pension at age 55?

Also, I think the Fox News ticker is referring to the FAA's reaction to the recent decision-making panel. The panel basically said "do nothing", but all we've seen since then is a Wall Street Journal article saying the FAA administrator was considering making at attempt to raise the age. Maybe Fox got word that an official statement was coming.

 

[pilot141]

Depending on your disposition I suppose they could, however, our profession is in a constant state of change and the age 60 retirement age will probably be one of those changes.

To those who have no desire to be working after 60, if age 65 is approved you can always resign upon reaching 60 and live out your remaining years in bliss, unfortunately due to recent events some people will need to work the extra years to get financially back on track.

What can be said with certainty is that there is no way you are going to please everybody with this one.

Wow...since our profession is changing I guess we should accept a blatant money-grab by the older guys? Retiring at age 60 has been one of the few CONSTANTS in this profession. It's one of the reasons I got into it in the first place! To change it now alters the entire underpinnings of the career.

Your pie-in-the-sky solution of guys who want to retire at 60 just resigning won't work, as others have pointed out. When the retirement age goes to 65 so will the pensions. Right now guys get punished financially to retire before 60 (just ask a Delta guy who bailed early to get his lump-sum A-fund). Do you think that will magically change when the age is raised to 65?

Yes, some guys need to keep flying beyond 60 for financial reasons. But do you really want to force everyone else to pay for their misfortune and/or mistakes?

If you want to keep flying past 60 you can find a nice Part 91 job tooling around in a G-IV. It brings in the cash, which you need. But the pro-change guys don't want that. They want to continue to accrue vacation, a pension and sick time at their airline.

OK, then: the ICAO rule says at least one person must be under 60 in the cockpit. How about we make that the Captain? When you turn 60 you roll back to the bottom of the list and end up as an FO on the most junior equipment. You're still flying, and at your same airline. Who wouldn't like that deal? Oh, right - the greedy bastages that want to camp out in the left seat of a widebody for five more years.

You are correct in that there is no way you are going to please everybody on this one. But since when is everyone pleased in this job?

 

[jayme]

OK, then: the ICAO rule says at least one person must be under 60 in the cockpit. How about we make that the Captain? When you turn 60 you roll back to the bottom of the list and end up as an FO on the most junior equipment. You're still flying, and at your same airline. Who wouldn't like that deal? Oh, right - the greedy bastages that want to camp out in the left seat of a widebody for five more years.

You are correct in that there is no way you are going to please everybody on this one. But since when is everyone pleased in this job?

Nice! I like the way you think.

 

[Clacker]

How about we make that the Captain? When you turn 60 you roll back to the bottom of the list and end up as an FO on the most junior equipment. You're still flying, and at your same airline. Who wouldn't like that deal? Oh, right - the greedy bastages that want to camp out in the left seat of a widebody for five more years.


Exactly. It has nothing to do with "age discrimination". It's all about the money. I've become sick and tired of hearing the "discrimination" excuse. It would truly be refreshing to hear a WB captain tell me:
" F@#k you guys, I wanna be on top for 5 more years, and the hell with your career expectations."
I still wouldn't like it, but would at least appreciate the honesty....

 

[Andy]

The Fox News ticker is saying that the FAA is close to releasing it's decision on raising the retirement age to 65. For some reason Fox believes this is important enough for the national news. Go figure.

I thought this was dead for now. The drama continues.

Any bets on what they will decide? Any thoughts for you Andy?

The FAA will likely issue a statement saying that they are studying the issue further. No action will be taken.
The pro-change crowd has been going to the media and feeding them a message that change is coming. If you read most articles, the only direct quotes are from the APAAD or other pro-change group.

The only threat to change that I currently see is that S 65 got buried in FY07's transportation appropriations bill. It needs to be stripped out of there before all of the appropriations bills get rolled into an omnibus bill or it will change to age 65.

 

[pilotyip]

The Detroit Free Press on page 3 of the business section confirmed in today's paper that the age may be raised this year. Also said there are a number of piltos groups lobbying for the age increase.

 

[Caveman]

Why is that only the anti 60 guys are greedy bastards? The pro 60 crowd are just as greedy? Both sides want the financial benefits. The pro 60's hide behind the safety argument. The anti 60's complain about discrimination.

It is discriminatory (so is age 65 or any other age). There may or may not be valid safety concerns.

This is classic politics. The haves want to keep what they've got and the have-nots want to take it away so they can get theirs.

It's going to change eventually. There is no way congress is going to continue to allow ICAO pilots to fly in the U.S. while U.S. pilots can't. The public will kill them if they do.

 

[bigtexpilot]

So I guess those don't count in your mind??

Not in mine and I'm 42.

 

[Andy]

The Detroit Free Press on page 3 of the business section confirmed in today's paper that the age may be raised this year. Also said there are a number of piltos groups lobbying for the age increase.

I'll match my track record on forecasts and the details this issue with anyone.

The age will be raised this year IF the text of S 65 remains buried in the transportation appropriations bill. If it is removed, age 60 will remain in effect until at least 2009 and it will be a dead issue for the 110th congress.
The more people write to congressmen on the Senate Appropriations Committee, the more likely that it will be removed. We'll know after the omnibus appropriations bill is passed and published. I'm looking for a late February timeframe.

I also think that Sen Tim Johnson's medical condition will not help the pro-change crowd.