Tips on flying the Cessna 310 and 400 Series

[PositionandHold]

Will be starting to fly these, and could use any advice you guys have as I have no time in either.

Any direction to websites or resources that might help supplement whatever training I'll have in them are much appreciated.

J.

 

[340drvr]

Here's one with a wide variety of info:

http://www.jtatwins.com/

 

[Kream926]

dont crash it - theres a tip

how about making sure you have enough fuel, theres another one

 

[time builder]

Be generous with the runway use on the C310. I knew a guy who thought the 310 so powerful, he stood a couple thousand feet down the runway from a departing 310, mooning the pilot, he nearly got a nose wheel up his crack.

It will accelerate, but it has a relatively high rotation speed, hence the runway consumption.

 

[PositionandHold]

Be generous with the runway use on the C310. I knew a guy who thought the 310 so powerful, he stood a couple thousand feet down the runway from a departing 310, mooning the pilot, he nearly got a nose wheel up his crack.

It will accelerate, but it has a relatively high rotation speed, hence the runway consumption.

Thanks for that, I'll keep it in mind.


340drvr, thanks for that site. I'll look through it.

 

[Junkflyer]

The 402's are easy to fly and great handling airplanes. If its an A or B model make the the gear preflight is thorough. Learn how to do the hot-start procedure also-it takes 3 hands to do it well.

 

[RedGuy]

The 402's are easy to fly and great handling airplanes. If its an A or B model make the the gear preflight is thorough. Learn how to do the hot-start procedure also-it takes 3 hands to do it well.

It doesn't take 3 hands to hot start. Just set mixture rich, throttles open about 1 inch, no prime within the first 30min, hit the starter and it'll fire right up every time.

The 402's are alot easier to make nice landings in than the 310. The 310 will tend to have a firmer landings, they're abit harder to make really smooth landings in. Also the 402B's can be runway hogs when it's hot and your heavy, and forget about continuing a takeoff if you have an engine failure in a 402B. If your still on the ground STOP, if your in the air and can still put it on the runway do it. The 402B has horrible single engine performance and in many cases will not provide a positive rate of climb on one engine.

 

[8inMan]

I'll second what the last guy said. Loosing an engine in a 402A or B when you're heavy is like loosing an engine in a single engine Cessna. You'll come down just about as fast. Also, learn the fuel system well. It is a little complicated.

 

[Say Again Over]

Knew of a bad accident near ABQ, 421 takes off, baggage door (nose) opens, returns to land, brought back engine on same side to idle in case a bag fell out, on base he feathers the opposite engine by accident, all perished. I have no 310 experience but have bundles of 421, maintain 25" until short final for long cylinder life, as previously stated, on take off, if you lose an engine, land straight ahead if you want to survive. A 400 will NOT carry ice, be f'ing careful. High alt high residual starts must be done WHILE cranking the engine, don't juice the engine while stopped. Don't trust anyone else to close the entrance door, do it yourself, double check nose baggage doors.

 

[deadstick]

how about making sure you have enough fuel,

1) The fuel gremlin that is associated with the 3/400 series piston fleet is really the pilot's understanding of the fuel system (or the line guy thought the 'tip tanks' were the aux's and the pilot didn't verify the qualitities).

With the aux tanks (exp. 166 gal-C414), people have run out of go juice when they thought they still had some (and should have). The fuel pumps draw much more than the engine uses and then returns the excess to the MAIN tanks only -- regardless of fuel selector position. So what has happened is that the pilot launches in the wild blue, levels off, and switches to the aux tanks to burn those down first. Well, if the take off and climb only took about 8 gal from each side (with full mains on the ramp), then main can only hold 8 gal from the return. I think the 30-some odd gal aux tank would last about 1.5 or so (during that time you can watch the main's level increase!). All that excess fuel over the 8 gals went right out the vent. So much for fuel planning.
Our SOP was to run the mains for 1.5 before switching to the aux tanks to ensure that this did not happen. This gave you about 20 gal of room for the return.

2) They are right -- it's not a GO airplane. Keep it/put it on the ground.

3) Hot starts...practice-practice-practice. Find out waht work for your plane. It seems like each engine has it's own personality. I had one that the left side liked to start hot with the throttle open 1/2 way and mixture ICO. The other one wanted the throttle at 1" and the mixture RICH.

4) With the tip-tanked types, if you walk up to the plane to check the fuel and find an aux tank overflowing and the main down a bit (assuming it was topped-off after the last flight), don;t necessarily jump on the line guys. You might have a fuel selector going bad. There are little o-rings in there that can fail and will let the fuel from the main (which sits above the aux) flow down back through the line and into the aux.

5) Get to know the DOM. Buy him a beer or six every now and again and pick his brain. Ask to come in an watch/help with an inspection. This will help you know the aircraft.

Just my $.02.

Best of luck. They are fun to fly.

 

[340drvr]

Here's another with some useful operating tips:

http://www.ramaircraft.com/Maintenance-Tips.htm

One good general operating tip I've heard, regarding power changes, is to treat every power change as if you're holding a raw egg(s) between your hand and the power levers (especially the throttles, but applies to props as well, maybe not so much with mixtures.), make your adjustments so as not to crush the "egg." It's probably not a bad idea to baby power changes in any engine, but a necessity for the big turbos, and absolutely required for the GTSIO's in the 421/404. That doesn't mean you can't bring power up swiftly and promptly in a go-around or missed approach, but you can strive to be as smooth and gentle as possible.

 

[svcta]

They're right: Be ginger with the power changes, all of them(MP, RPM, Mixture), it will pay off in spades re: cylinder life and nose cases(gear reductions) on the geared engines.

Most of my time is in 310. So that's all I'll talk about here:

Great platform. Fast, fairly efficient....it's an autopilot airplane to me, not one you'e love hand flying in weather for a period of time. If you're normally aspirated run a 310 around 10,000 feet if the winds are not prohibitive. you'll get 25 gallons/hr out of it and should see 180 Kts true all day long(varies from airframe to airframe, but close). The landing gearbox needs attention from time to time. If there's an irregular wear pattern on the gears it can lock up. This is generally a result of the uplocks not being properly adjusted. It's a pain in the arse but better than the alternative.

In flight use drag to slow you down, not a lot of pwer reductions. Lead a speed reduction(assuming you're setting up to land) with the landing lights. Depending on the model they'll shave off 5-10 kts and get you closer to flap speeds. Then as you get in the initial flap range just sort of sneak them out. If you go to the first 10 degrees(if memory serves) the thing will balloon like crazy. Beyond that it's fairly normal. Slow it down early!!! We used a 7:1 descent profile in order to keep the power up throughout the descents. That's a lot. 70 miles @ 10,000'; 35 miles @5000, 7 miles @ 1000' (AFE, of course). 7 miles to lose 1000' sounds like a lot, but if you're really careful with the powerplants it's right on the money. And if you're level at 7 miles you'll be working hard to get it slowed from cruise speed, so start easing off the speed before that, somewhere in your descent. This is where the flatter descent path will pay off. You'll be asking for lower a lot, but don't be afraid of that.

When you're single engine in a 310 DO NOt get hamfisted. In any airplane for that matter, but much more so that in most light twins here. Make smooth power changes and it will return the favor.


Approach speeds are high, well over 100kts. I seem to remember easing back to around 100 over the fence and just fly the airplane in to the flare. And keep power on throughout the approach and into the flare. It comes straight down without it. So flare with both hands. Yoke back power back to idle(gently, you hack).

I love 310s. I think that they are a great stepping stone for something much bigger becuase of the philosophy of operating it: Get down early, slow down early, carry power, etc. It just forces you to be way out ahead of the airplane and that's one of the hardest disciplines to teach.

Enjoy.

 

[time builder]

I love 310s. I think that they are a great stepping stone for something much bigger becuase of the philosophy of operating it: Get down early, slow down early, carry power, etc. It just forces you to be way out ahead of the airplane and that's one of the hardest disciplines to teach.

Enjoy.

I agree, the C310 was much more of a hand full than the Seneca, but much more rewarding. I felt it was a great prep for the BE99.

 

[PositionandHold]

wow some great advice here. I'm going to print this out.

Thanks so far, keep 'em coming

 

[RedGuy]

Don't forget to stage cool, both for the engines and the turbo's. I use 2 inches/ 2 minutes. So that means in the 402 coming out of cruise at 30 inches/ 2300rpm I want to be at 22 inches when I get to the pattern, so when the GPS says I'm 8 minutes out I start pulling out power. The 310 isn't as big of a deal since your only coming from 23 inches, I use 2 power reductions in the 310, one from 23 to 21.5, then after 2 minutes from 21.5 to 20. From there you can usually put in 15% flaps if your in level flight, then back to 18 inches, drop the gear, and about 16-17 inches down final. Also don't forget to cool those turbo's on the 402 I make sure I have at least 4 minutes at 1000 rpm with the cowl flaps open before shut down. Which is usually pretty easy since 1000rpm usually gives you about a 15-20kt taxi speed and unless you have a really short taxi, you eat up most of that 4 minutes taxing.

 

[JediNein]

4) With the tip-tanked types, if you walk up to the plane to check the fuel and find an aux tank overflowing and the main down a bit (assuming it was topped-off after the last flight), don;t necessarily jump on the line guys. You might have a fuel selector going bad. There are little o-rings in there that can fail and will let the fuel from the main (which sits above the aux) flow down back through the line and into the aux.

[/b]
Akso check the function of the fuel cutoff valves and crossover valves every so often. It sucks to try to shut down a engine that's on fire, but it won't as there's still fuel.

 

[CRXAV8R]

Thinks for the tips guys currently working on Comm/Multi in a C-310R.

 

[RedGuy]

Thinks for the tips guys currently working on Comm/Multi in a C-310R.

That must be alittle expensive.

 

[SPBRIAN]

In flight use drag to slow you down, not a lot of pwer reductions. Lead a speed reduction(assuming you're setting up to land) with the landing lights. Depending on the model they'll shave off 5-10 kts and get you closer to flap speeds. Then as you get in the initial flap range just sort of sneak them out. If you go to the first 10 degrees(if memory serves) the thing will balloon like crazy.

All of the information is great and good tips but this one I don't possibly agree from a wear and tear stance. It was mentioned that you can increase the longetivity of the landing light motor+gears, to only operate them within the flap speeds, thus decreasing the loads on them. Also if you run them out for every landing don't raise them back up until after takeoff, that way you save an entire cycle plus if you test them during pre-flights it saves another cycle there.

-Brian

 

[deadstick]

Landing Lights

Those lights are a pain!! Some engineer in Wichita must have been smokin' some funky wheat chaff when he came up with the wiring.

In the 414 (and I assume the 310 alhough it's not mentioned in the Fuel System section), the Shuttle Pump (aka Main Tank Transfer Pump), which comes on with the Master, is on the same CB as the landing light. SO, if the landing light motor gets overloaded, like if it's OLD and doesn't to turn off once extended/retracted or is extended at too high of an airspeed (although no published limitation), then the CB could blow and no more shuttle pump. Hope you always get a shallow let-down. At night, you can tell if a landing light isn't on and might check the CB. But duringthe day...we just had to add that to a mental checklist to always check the CB after they were extended or retracted.

Another thing, exercise the Alt Air controls regularly. When you need it is the wrong time to find out the cable is gummed-up with 20 years of oil and dirt.

 

[hydroflyer]

I'm not sure about the other models, but with the 310R if you try landing with full flaps and are near the forward CG limit, the plane will have a hard time flaring and will land in more of a 3-point attitude. It is much easier to land the plane with 20 degrees of flaps or less with a far forward CG to get some sort of flare.

People always have litttle tricks for starting the engines, but usually the POH procedures work just fine. Be familiar with those listed especially for the hot starts.

If it is really warm outside and you have to hold short or idle for an extended period of time, watch your engine temps as they can creep near redline and then exceed it on takeoff.

Try not to land with any side drift in a crosswind with the gear. Differential thrust works well when landing in a crosswind if necessary.

Most of my time in the 310 was spent hand-flying it and I felt it was a great plane for that as it trimmed out well and could fly hands off nicely. Original "Nav-o-matic" autopilots could be suspect.

AOPA's Safety Foundation has a book on the 310 that includes highlights of accidents and typical problem spots with the plane. The book would be a good addition to a school that uses the plane for training.

 

[svcta]

interesting point to be made regarding the landing light circuit breaker: That pump in the main tanks that recirculates fuel in the tank runs continuously, as said earlier when the master is on. It is, in fact, on the same circuit breaker as the landing lights. We had 6 310s operating nearly every day(some with 12,000 hours on the airframe) and I am unaware of any problems regarding the landing light motor popping the C.B., but we would always pull those C.B.s after the lights were selected off for a few minutes in order to save time on those pumps. The concept being that we would like for them to work when they are really dsigned to: in the terminal area after long legs, and not needlessly during hours of cruise.

Now, I'll caution everyone to make this a part of their checklist before they start doing it. Those pumps were installed for a reason, which is to keep fuel in the proper part of the main tanks(tips) when you're maneuvering down low with not a lot of fuel, and subsequently keep the engines running when you're trying to land. SO MAKE SURE THEY'RE IN!! It was a part of our company checklists and training from the word "go" . make sure they're in.

By the way, there's no mistaking the landing lights when they're out. Day or night the whole airplane shudders a little when they're out. Both the big ones and little ones(lights).

 

[00Dog]

Make sure the nut is there and safety wired on the elevator trim. Know a guy that almost got killed when that came off.

 

[RedGuy]

All of the information is great and good tips but this one I don't possibly agree from a wear and tear stance. It was mentioned that you can increase the longetivity of the landing light motor+gears, to only operate them within the flap speeds, thus decreasing the loads on them. Also if you run them out for every landing don't raise them back up until after takeoff, that way you save an entire cycle plus if you test them during pre-flights it saves another cycle there.

-Brian

My Do and CP both told me to use the lights to slow down if you need to, and if anyone was worried about wear and tear they are. So I wouldn't worry about wearing out the landing lights. I've yet to have the light motor fail on me or pop the ciruit breaker. I also wouldn't pull th ebreakers to "save" the pumps in the tip tanks, they're designed to run the way they do for long periods of time. Plus what will inevitably happen is you will forget about them being pulled. Though the tanks have to be pretty low to make much of a differance. Also those book fuel flows, for get about them since they're all predicated on running at peak EGT. So if your running 50-75 deg ROP you'll be burning a few more gallons.