Old Geezer

[FlyinHigh737]

Well, we have vented a lot of opinions here in a very short period of time. We have gone from a simple dress code to deregulation; maybe, just maybe we should take a look in a mirror. Remember the days you would give anything to fly for a commuter airliner and then the majors. Maybe it was the uniform, women or pay, for what ever reason it was something you worked hard for. We all choose this profession, we all applied, interviewed and accepted employment, and now a few complain about the pay, work rules ect…. Yes, the daily grind gets all of us, commuting to work the crowds and working on the Holidays, but man what a view in our office. And what about that future pilot that is 8 years old, looking up at your loose tie and rolled up sleeves, and your cavalier attitude, only out for what you think is fair. So, back to the mirror, I am the only one that can change myself, I will shine my shoes (2 minutes at a cost of 25 cents), I will press my shirt (free ironing board and iron), I will buy wool blend pants instead of cotton dockers ( 45 dollars and will last me one year) and I will walk with pride down the jet way. Because I know, at the end of the day, I did the best I know how to do, I know that looked after our passengers and fellow crew members as best I could and I did it with pride. The uniform expresses this pride!!!!!!!

 

[vetrider]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

It is called professional self-discipline. It is the very same discipline that drives you to fly an approach on-speed, touch down on the centerline, and in the touchdown zone.

It is the same discipline that makes you take care when you perform a walkaround, despite the cold rain and wind.

It is the same discipline you display when you take pride in providing your customers (not passengers... customers) with a smooth, comfortable, and safe flight -- not because you have to, but because you want to.

You know who you are because that pride in yourself and your profession carries over to your everyday life. It shows in the way you raise your children. It shows in how neat you keep your lawn, and in the appearance of your home. You have pride in yourself and the job that you do.

That pride means shining your shoes, a straight (clean) tie, a crisp jacket, and wearing your hat if the company ops manual requires that it be worn. The first impression you make on your customers is one of excellence. When they look at you, they imagine that you take every bit as much care in the operation of your aircraft.

When I flew a turboprop for $13500 per year I wore my uniform with pride. I polished my shoes, I wore my coat, and yes -- my hat as well. It has nothing to do with whether or not some other generation left this profession a mess. Maybe it did. But my decision to dress and act with professional self- discipline has more to do with my character and the way that I was raised than it does about what I get paid.

Bud is 100% right. Some of you folks should be ashamed.

That is spot on Bender.

 

[BeCareful!]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

It is called professional self-discipline. It is the very same discipline that drives you to fly an approach on-speed, touch down on the centerline, and in the touchdown zone.

It is the same discipline that makes you take care when you perform a walkaround, despite the cold rain and wind.

It is the same discipline you display when you take pride in providing your customers (not passengers... customers) with a smooth, comfortable, and safe flight -- not because you have to, but because you want to.

You know who you are because that pride in yourself and your profession carries over to your everyday life. It shows in the way you raise your children. It shows in how neat you keep your lawn, and in the appearance of your home. You have pride in yourself and the job that you do.

That pride means shining your shoes, a straight (clean) tie, a crisp jacket, and wearing your hat if the company ops manual requires that it be worn. The first impression you make on your customers is one of excellence. When they look at you, they imagine that you take every bit as much care in the operation of your aircraft.

When I flew a turboprop for $13500 per year I wore my uniform with pride. I polished my shoes, I wore my coat, and yes -- my hat as well. It has nothing to do with whether or not some other generation left this profession a mess. Maybe it did. But my decision to dress and act with professional self- discipline has more to do with my character and the way that I was raised than it does about what I get paid.

Bud is 100% right. Some of you folks should be ashamed.

True, BG. Good post, but there is plenty of shame to go around, and much of it on the senior folks that have dominated the rank and file and the MECs the past five years.

I'll agree that my paycheck shouldn't dictate how well I wear my uniform at work, but all the shoe polish on Earth wouldn't have changed the behavior and the unbelievable greed of the senior pilots during this downturn. 95 hours/month with 1879 pilots on the street? Pushing age 60 change? $46/hour pay rates (third year pay!) for positions they knew they would never have to work? Allowing vacation to be cut to ONE week through the 7th year? Not a big sacrifice when there's no one on the property with less than 15 years. I think all of this is shameful.

I'm not sure you can quantify which is more shameful; guess it depends on your date of hire.

 

[Flopgut]

No one should hesitate to give a uniform correction, and be humble enough accept one. You have to periodcally re-dedicate yourself to appearance. Frankly, in the last 6 years I have had some times when I had no time to get new slacks fitted or my coat cleaned when I would have liked. It seems I've had just enough time off to recover from the flying I just did and rest for what I have coming up! And I'm sure I have better work rules than some of the guys/gals starting out. Some pilots are almost living in their uniform.

Don't buy a new guy who's dressed shabby beers, buy him/her some shoes!

 

[glasspilot1]

No ties?

no ties when they are required

I've seen a lot of stuff, but no ties? I hope you don't mean down in ops or in the cockpit.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

No Glasspilot1, I mean walking in broad daylight down the terminal with an unbuttoned open collar without a tie wearing a pilot shirt with epilets(spelling), pilot slacks in black shoes rolling a flight bag down the terminal at a major international airport.

I have also seen these express pilots wearing fleece vests, unapproved golf/workout jackets, and black tennis shoes. I even met another jump seater on a flight I was jump seating on sporting a tongue ring as he opened his mouth to speak.

It is not an uncommon sight. These express guys have no idea what they are doing in the terminal and look like flight instructors at a GA airport.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Bender has it right!

The gen X and Y are characterized by allowing their expectations determine their ambition rather than the other way round. Thus they feel vindicated by blaming those they feel were responsible for the mess they put themselves in.

The geezers were the ones who went on strike to establish the pay rates that were the envy of the world. Now when they are forced to adapt to major life changes beyond their control (as opposed to the whining and blaming of the oh-ryans, et. al.) they are told that something that would help everyone adapt to the new realities, such as abolishing Age 60, are off the table.

I looked up to the geezers and still do. My ambitions were bolstered by their attempts to live up to expectations. And while not nearly at the top, I can still enjoy the satisfaction of fulfilling my life's ambition.

Thanks geezers!

 

[Oh-ryan]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

It is called professional self-discipline. It is the very same discipline that drives you to fly an approach on-speed, touch down on the centerline, and in the touchdown zone.

It is the same discipline that makes you take care when you perform a walkaround, despite the cold rain and wind.

It is the same discipline you display when you take pride in providing your customers (not passengers... customers) with a smooth, comfortable, and safe flight -- not because you have to, but because you want to.

You know who you are because that pride in yourself and your profession carries over to your everyday life. It shows in the way you raise your children. It shows in how neat you keep your lawn, and in the appearance of your home. You have pride in yourself and the job that you do.

That pride means shining your shoes, a straight (clean) tie, a crisp jacket, and wearing your hat if the company ops manual requires that it be worn. The first impression you make on your customers is one of excellence. When they look at you, they imagine that you take every bit as much care in the operation of your aircraft.

When I flew a turboprop for $13500 per year I wore my uniform with pride. I polished my shoes, I wore my coat, and yes -- my hat as well. It has nothing to do with whether or not some other generation left this profession a mess. Maybe it did. But my decision to dress and act with professional self- discipline has more to do with my character and the way that I was raised than it does about what I get paid.

Bud is 100% right. Some of you folks should be ashamed.

BG,
You had me right up until you told all of us who disagree with Bud to be ashamed. You and Bud are right, you fly a plane with customers on board, look like a professional... I don't care how much you are being paid. But, let's take a look at the days in which all pilots wore pressed uniforms and shined shoes... I seem to recall during those times men wearing suits and hats to ballgames and church, TV not showing a man and a wife sharing a bed... you know all of that George and Harriet / Ricky and Lucy stuff. Fastforward 50 years society is a much different place. Do I see the FO with an iPod and wrinkled pants and think to myself "jees what a slouch"... you bet I do. I also think that about the teller at the bank with a stain on his shirt, the guy wearing cutoff jeans to church, the girl working as cashier at the department store with the low riders on. Society has allowed all this to happen and not just to pilots. The bar has been lowered across the board starting with the Greatest Generation all the way to Gen Y. Is this an excuse, nope, not at all. I've just come to expect less from the people I bump in to during my day to day life (not just pilots). I will continue to expect nothing but the best effort from myself and my kids though.

The problem with Bud's argument is that he addressed it as problem in aviation. I disagree and say that its reflection of the society we live in. You tell anyone who disagrees to be ashamed. Thanks for your input.

 

[scoreboard]

Now with no hats, ties optional and leather jackets, I just wonder where the pride went.

This is the statement I have a heartburn with, since when do hats and leather jackets make or break your pride? I've never seen a pilot without a tie. Care to elaborate Capt "I got mine"? Your point on appearance are true, be clean, sharp, polished. But how do these specific uniform items identify that with them or without them your a prideless individual? Flambait if you ask me.

 

[Flopgut]

Bender has it right!

The gen X and Y are characterized by allowing their expectations determine their ambition rather than the other way round. Thus they feel vindicated by blaming those they feel were responsible for the mess they put themselves in.

The geezers were the ones who went on strike to establish the pay rates that were the envy of the world. Now when they are forced to adapt to major life changes beyond their control (as opposed to the whining and blaming of the oh-ryans, et. al.) they are told that something that would help everyone adapt to the new realities, such as abolishing Age 60, are off the table.

I looked up to the geezers and still do. My ambitions were bolstered by their attempts to live up to expectations. And while not nearly at the top, I can still enjoy the satisfaction of fulfilling my life's ambition.

Thanks geezers!

You're a little confused on the whole good geezer/bad geezer thing. The good geezers are the ones who persevered, made a plan for the worst but hoped for the best, and got themselves ready for retirement. The bad geezers (the ones who screwed up the whole industry) are the greed wracked, self absorbed ones that sold out the bottom for themselves in the last few years.

Get yourself some better geezers.

 

[landlover]

the old timers problem can be solved easily. go buy a g550 type and fly corporate/charter. the pilots and pax will be better dressed for the occasion. would you put on a suit and tie to ride a greyhound? no. this is how the general public looks at riding on airliners these days. as far as employees and uniforms, this is going on acroos the board in all aspects of the country. my post man wears a du-rag and big baggy jeans and uses an ipod while working.

 

[XJohXJ]

Yes, it's valid to suggest pilots should not look like slobs. But all of you spit 'n' polish types need to lay off the sanctimony. You're acting like the cliched uptight high school principle types in bad summertime teen comidies. Pilots don't know anything about business (as proven by the crappy position we have all negotiated our collective way into), and they don't know jack about fashion (cheesy polyester uniforms). It is absurd when they play the know-it-all-obnoxious-blowhard and try to form a correlation between pilot appearance and pilot pay. You guys spend way too much time worrying about how other people look. Clean up your own ship, and be proud of yourselves. If you think you can hand over a turd of a job to those less senior than you, and then blow your hole over the wrinkles in someone else's shirt, you will spend your days in misery. How about considering that maybe someone didn't iron because they had 8 hours of hotel time, and only wanted to sleep? Maybe their clothes are wrinkled 'cause they had to pack 6 days of clothes into their overnight bag? Be bitter if you want too, but you have no authority to rule the lives of others. If you want folks to respect you, close your mouth more often than you open it, and take care of yourselves. You are not in charge of anyone else, beyond the narrow confines of fligh-related job performance. What you think of others' apperances simply does not matter to anyone else, and whining about it is just lame and annoying. Sanctimonious lectures don't work, especially when they are so petty as to be about someone else's uniform. If you want to talk about professionalism, your energy (and the efforts of ALL PILOTS) should be entirely focused on regaining professional compensation. Everyone knows that looking good costs money, and management will never pay us more simply because a few guys take up the iron more often. People have priorities, and when you are close to poverty, uniforms tend to not even make the list.

 

[Bringupthebird]

In America they CHOSE to take a job that required packing for 6 days. And they CHOOSE how they present themselves.

What is your pride worth?

 

[Bringupthebird]

You're a little confused on the whole good geezer/bad geezer thing. The good geezers are the ones who persevered, made a plan for the worst but hoped for the best, and got themselves ready for retirement. The bad geezers (the ones who screwed up the whole industry) are the greed wracked, self absorbed ones that sold out the bottom for themselves in the last few years.

Get yourself some better geezers.

I think, in your opinion, anyone who stands between you and what you think you deserve is "bad".

Selling out the bottom, eh? Tell me who has been sheltered from the turmoil of the past 5 years at the expense of someone junior? There's more than enough pain to spread around.

 

[CaptBud330]

I got mine?

Scorboard, you say I am Captain " I got mine". You couldn't be further off base. My career was as turbulent as most. I suffered significant loss of seniority with the Allegheny/Mohawk merger in 1971. As a result of that, furlough number 1 occurred shortly after the merger. Furlough number 2, 1975 with the fuel crisis. That one lasted only 2 years whith a new baby to feed. Recalled to fly a small turbo-prop that paid a whopping 9K a year. We qualified for food stamps and we got milk for the baby under the federal WIK program. Sixteen years right seat and loss of pension. Yeah, I guess I'm Captain I got mine. Only thing that saved my butt was a wife that was a saver.
My career pales in comparison to the pilots furloughed at US Airways that have been on the beach for 6 years or the 1989 pilots that have been on and off more then Tracy Lords.
Personally, I have never intentionally flown over 85. Flying International, some conditionds forced going over. But with so many pilots out on furlough, this Captain I got mine, would do anything to help get guys back. I'm no whore.
As far as looking sharp, whatever your company manual says is policy, that's fine. If it says no tie, hat, leather jacket, that's what you'll do. Regardless what is says, you wear what they say. I'm sure the manual doesn't say wear what you want, anyway you like, and by the way, it's okay to look like an un-made bed.