Ever wondered about banner towing?

[NotFurloughed]

Safe...

I've done towing and skywriting....both are as safe as you (and the company) make them....

I would never do it if I weren't confident in the equipment, the set up and the operation.

Towing large signs (e.g. 40 x 80 or 50 x 120) is a matter of aircraft choice. All the airplanes I've flown have been specifically built for aerial advertising.

Super cruisers with 180+ H.P. and wing extensions, Bird Dogs with 260+ h.p., 260 Pawnees and 600 AgCats, as well as the occasional Citabria. All performed beautifully. And in over 600 hours of doing it part time never had more than a small problem here or there.

I think the safety boils down to training and maintenance, just like any flying job.

Know your limits and stick to them and it can be a lot of boring fun!

 

[momalley81]

Had a few minor problems in my time towing, nothing I would consider inherantly dangerous. Yeah, if the motor quit you were going for a swim, that's what life jackets are for. I felt more comfortable with my chances ditching off the shore than when I was flying freight over the Blue Ridge mountians in a single (yes at night and IFR)

AND- it bears worth noting. Nobody EVER died working for Paramount. In the past they may have bent a little more metal than their contemporaries, but they've been cleaning things up the last few years, and I'd put their safety record up against anybody elses.

The 150 Pawnee was a good towplane, the 235 was better, but was heavier and burned more gas. OH- and you couldn't remove a door. A 150 re-engined for 180 was a great tow plane. You just couldn't fly it like a Super Cub, you had to fly it like a Pawnee. It had a LOT better roll authority than the Super Cub with 4' wing extensions, or a stock J3 or stock PA12.

That's just my take though.

Oh- while were comparing- biggest was 55' x 100' (NJA- you flew for aerial sign before they got bought for VanWagner? Ever do time in NJ?)

 

[NotFurloughed]

Oh- while were comparing- biggest was 55' x 100' (NJA- you flew for aerial sign before they got bought for VanWagner? Ever do time in NJ?)

Actually, the biggest we towed with the 'Cat was 60 x 120, it was for Savings Bank Life Insurance....aircraft and operation was AVIAD...they moved from MA and I think they're based in SoCal and Mexico now. Just acquired one of the AgCats up in NH - for skywriting, so I'm back flying the round engines and contributing to global warming on my days off from my "real" job.

 

[svcta]

I always towed in PA-18s, both 160 and 180. I've never considered any of these(or any airplane I've flown, for that matter) to be overpowered. Until I can accellerate vertically with a 60x120 billboard behind me I don't think "overpowered" is possible. Banner towing in the summer was some of the most fun I've ever had flying. Never worked near a beach and we used 7 foot letters so I never towed below 1000'. We used to tie our banners up in bags and tie them to the bottom of the cubs to transport them around. Looked like Super Cubs with torpedoes. Spent 2 years in cubs and barely ever topped 1000', towing or just getting to a site, and I just don't think it was ever unsafe.

If you think 500' over water just off shore from the beach is dangerous, well, I can't explain it to you. When you're over water, in my opinion, 10,000' is the same as 1'. You're getting wet, wither way. But in the right airplane you could shed a banner and make the beach(or get really close) in 500' from what I've seen.

Towing is as safe as you make it, like every other kind of flying. I would never do it in anything less than a super cub or for the right guy.

Towing is one of those jobs that allows(forces, really) you to completely explore the range of the envelope of a particular airplane. It's not for everybody, but I'm a much better, safer, and more confident pilot for it. Besides, all that tailwheel time has opened most of the doors to some of the really cool flying I get to do in my spare time today.

Cornball alert:::::Fondest flying memory: Summer days in a super cub with the door down and the window up, freshly cut grass runway, and someone else buying the gas. It's amazing how many pilots out there just don't get it.

 

[NJA bound]

Cornball alert:::::Fondest flying memory: Summer days in a super cub with the door down and the window up, freshly cut grass runway, and someone else buying the gas. It's amazing how many pilots out there just don't get it.

Aw man dude, you're killing me, I miss those days. Think I'm going to be calling Jim Jr. soon, got to get back in a cub this summer, make some extra cash on those two weeks off every month.

 

[momalley81]

I always towed in PA-18s, both 160 and 180. I've never considered any of these(or any airplane I've flown, for that matter) to be overpowered. Until I can accellerate vertically with a 60x120 billboard behind me I don't think "overpowered" is possible. Banner towing in the summer was some of the most fun I've ever had flying. Never worked near a beach and we used 7 foot letters so I never towed below 1000'. We used to tie our banners up in bags and tie them to the bottom of the cubs to transport them around. Looked like Super Cubs with torpedoes. Spent 2 years in cubs and barely ever topped 1000', towing or just getting to a site, and I just don't think it was ever unsafe.

If you think 500' over water just off shore from the beach is dangerous, well, I can't explain it to you. When you're over water, in my opinion, 10,000' is the same as 1'. You're getting wet, wither way. But in the right airplane you could shed a banner and make the beach(or get really close) in 500' from what I've seen.

Towing is as safe as you make it, like every other kind of flying. I would never do it in anything less than a super cub or for the right guy.

Towing is one of those jobs that allows(forces, really) you to completely explore the range of the envelope of a particular airplane. It's not for everybody, but I'm a much better, safer, and more confident pilot for it. Besides, all that tailwheel time has opened most of the doors to some of the really cool flying I get to do in my spare time today.

Cornball alert:::::Fondest flying memory: Summer days in a super cub with the door down and the window up, freshly cut grass runway, and someone else buying the gas. It's amazing how many pilots out there just don't get it.

When you're towing over a beach, 500' is the same as 1' You're getting wet. Too many people on the beach to hit during the rollout. A plane is cheaper than a couple of lawsuits and bad publicity.

Oh- and totally agree about the supercub/grass runway thing. Except, I'm wondering what these "door" things are that you speak of. And windows? Aren't those large holes in the side of the plane to stick your head out of?

Cornball alert- I was deadheading back one summer evening over central NJ, trying to get to Woodbine, about 45 minutes away. I was maybe 3-4 miles east of the GSP. Crystal clear evening, sun red on the horizon, looking to the left, the water was deep blue, in darkness, LBI was bright pink in dusk, as was Atlantic City ahead. Looking over my left shoulder I could barely make out the NYC skyline, and to the right, I could pick out the buildings of Philly on the red horizon. I wished I could have appreciated it at the time, but I had been flying for 10 hours already, was 50 minutes from home, and had maybe 10 minutes of daylight left (no lights).

 

[svcta]

Yes, I had the pleasure of flying airplanes that were unmodified save the 4-hook schweizer assembly on the stinger. Normal type cert and all.

 

[mcjohn]

Here ya go momally.
Some cell phone pics. The shell road to the right should look familiar seeing as how you were partial to it on occasion:
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m81/mcjohn766/Paramount Cockpit/JY04.jpg
You mentioned the city's skylines:
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m81/mcjohn766/Paramount Cockpit/Bader.jpg
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m81/mcjohn766/Paramount Cockpit/AC2.jpg
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m81/mcjohn766/Paramount Cockpit/AC1.jpg
Yep, I admit it. I preferred wearing the helmet in the J3. Those dang bars were too close to the left side of my head and I racked it on the ceiling bars a couple times as well. Diving between the trees on a 30 knots XWindy day would do that:
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m81/mcjohn766/Paramount Cockpit/Head1.jpg
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m81/mcjohn766/Paramount Cockpit/Helmet.jpg
No door is the way to go. Just like riding a motorcycle in the sky:
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m81/mcjohn766/Paramount Cockpit/Hand.jpg

 

[flagshipper]

I know lucky who used to work at scaramount and i heard plenty of stories from him. Banner towing is not that hard but the equipment makes a huge difference. a 235 hp pawnee does the trick every time. I yanked some large bud panels down the beach with that. I have plenty of knowledge of banner towing considering I owned my own company and sold it a few years back and had a large contract with a beverage distributor that paid the bills entirely. Dont assume because I am dissing another company that I have no idea what I am talking about.

 

[mcjohn]

dont go to paramount. they kill a pilot every year.

Ohhh...Pardon me. Usually when I see someone tell such a blatent lie I assume they have no idea what they are talking about. And again, for the record, Paramount has been in business for 62 years and has never had a fatality.

And don't be trying to blame Lucky for your misinformation. I know him quite well and he would not have been the source for this extreme stretch in information. You people are fear mongers. You hear one little story about something minor and it turns into "they kill a pilot every year."