Cal & Pbs

[jetjockey#1]

How many months do we have to go through before the company and the UNION figure out that PBS does not work?

What good is a contract if the company change the dates and times at any given time, and the UNION says: "ok we'll tell the pilots". We just changed some of the leadership at the union for this very reason, so the ones still standing, please say no to the company unless they give us something in exchange.

This is ridiculous, PBS did not even work at times while the bidding process was going on, awards are late, schedule 100% oposite from what I, and at least 10 other guys that I know bid for, and the union is sitting still. Oh yeah, they do send us those emails to tell us that the results are late. Let's grow some balls and hold the company to the contract we signed.

Unfortunately, I truly believe a change at the top, MEC, is necessary. A clear example, besides PBS, is the 737 IRO seat, come on, is anybody surprised about the company trying this? I am not, with the union leadership in place, what are they going to do, oh yeah, send us an email to warn us.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, the union is supposed to be on our side. PBS works when it's suppose to, or, back to the good old system. Awards on time, or, back to the good old system. Instead, what do we get, numerous emails telling us well is going to be late, but we don't know how late, and when the company give us further details we'll let you know..

What do you think it's going to happen next month? I bet the same thing all over again, what is the incentive for the company to change their ways? Unless the union enforces our contract, we are going to be treated the way we've been treated this far, like clowns

Very dissapointed with the PBS comittee. Resign, or, represent the 4700 pilots at CAL enforcing the contract.


That's my vote.

 

[twad]

I agree

The company should be held accountable. If we let the PBS issue go uncontested, we are just setting the tone for Contract 08. I believe that we as a pilot group should work with management but not be rolled over on issues that affect all of us.

 

[Ex737Driver]

Unfortunately, I truly believe a change at the top, MEC, is necessary.

Coming sometime in January when the MEC leadership steps down.

 

[glasspilot1]

As a former TWA pilot I'd like to comment on PBS. PBS is only as good as the groundwork that was laid to implement it.

Sounds like there was not near enough homework done before PBS was implemented at CAL.

From the mid 90's till AA "acquired" us we had Pref bidding. It was introduced in a very slow manner to try to minimize the problems when it went "live". The Co. and TWA-ALPA got together and first found a PBS program. They picked one fleet in STL (I think the DC-9 fleet) and did many months (maybe over a year) of test bidding. By test I mean the pilots still bid the normal way but also "mock" bid the PBS. After quite a long test period they actually rejected the original program. I have to give them a lot of credit for this.

So then they shopped for a new program. They found one called Ad-Opt (I think I have the name right, it's been 6 years now). After another round of testing and adding more of the fleets we went live. I have to say all and all it went pretty smoothly at TWA. Yes, there were bugs but we worked through them. There were some old crochety Capts who didn't even own a computer who were screaming about learning this whole new way of bidding. Even most of them liked it after a few months of the learning curve.

There lots of rumors at AA about PBS, mostly negative. There are those that say the Co. will take advantage of PBS to "screw" us. To that I say: "It's all in the contract". They can't just take the PBS computer program and manipulate it at their whim.

Also, PBS just replaces the company creating lines out of trips. The company still makes the trips. Then PBS takes the pilot requests and makes the lines. PBS has nothing to do with trip trades after the pilots have their schedule. PBS has nothing to do with reserve rules after a pilot receives his reserve days off.

 

[calfo]

It works great for me!

 

[jetjockey#1]

Coming sometime in January when the MEC leadership steps down.

I thought we only voted for Cpt, FO, and ST. reps, that's it. I didn't realize the MEC chairman is stepping down as well. I guess it's time for new blood.

 

[Ben Franklin]

It works great for me!

Fortunately for the rest of us, attitudes like this at CAL are retiring daily.


Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[Powda5]

All I have to say is....'Overall solution constraints' THIS!!!!! 16 bid lines and into Denial Mode 3. Lovely.

 

[ACWild]

PBS truly sucks. I've been hoping to go to 777 school to escape it but they keep holding me from the classes. Now there's rumors of new hires going in.

 

[glasspilot1]

Any Comments?

About my novel (post #4) I wrote earlier?

 

[imadumbpilot]

Fortunately for the rest of us, attitudes like this at CAL are retiring daily.


Sincerely,

B. Franklin

Amen brotha, amen

 

[catIIIc]

As a former TWA pilot I'd like to comment on PBS. PBS is only as good as the groundwork that was laid to implement it.

Sounds like there was not near enough homework done before PBS was implemented at CAL.

From the mid 90's till AA "acquired" us we had Pref bidding. It was introduced in a very slow manner to try to minimize the problems when it went "live". The Co. and TWA-ALPA got together and first found a PBS program. They picked one fleet in STL (I think the DC-9 fleet) and did many months (maybe over a year) of test bidding. By test I mean the pilots still bid the normal way but also "mock" bid the PBS. After quite a long test period they actually rejected the original program. I have to give them a lot of credit for this.

So then they shopped for a new program. They found one called Ad-Opt (I think I have the name right, it's been 6 years now). After another round of testing and adding more of the fleets we went live. I have to say all and all it went pretty smoothly at TWA. Yes, there were bugs but we worked through them. There were some old crochety Capts who didn't even own a computer who were screaming about learning this whole new way of bidding. Even most of them liked it after a few months of the learning curve.

There lots of rumors at AA about PBS, mostly negative. There are those that say the Co. will take advantage of PBS to "screw" us. To that I say: "It's all in the contract". They can't just take the PBS computer program and manipulate it at their whim.

Also, PBS just replaces the company creating lines out of trips. The company still makes the trips. Then PBS takes the pilot requests and makes the lines. PBS has nothing to do with trip trades after the pilots have their schedule. PBS has nothing to do with reserve rules after a pilot receives his reserve days off.

Glasspilot,

I am former TWA and I totally agree with you that our system at TWA was far superior. The problem with our system at CAL is :
1. We are understaffed; Karmen which is our PBS system has told our company and our PBS committee that we are about 1000 pilot short for this to run effectivly.
2. The PBS committee is trying to reinvent the wheel with this thing, it is way to complicated
3. The company is running with the 0 open time solution and the same number of reserves that we had with line bidding, see #1.

Basically everyone is getting screwed and getting dumped into Denial mode which basically builds you a schedule without your preferences.

It is very bad and needs to dumped.

 

[glasspilot1]

It is very bad and needs to dumped.

Man, that sucks! It's easy to forget how good we had it. TWA and the union really did it right with Ad-Opt.

 

[timmay]

About how many days off can a junior line holder get, say on the 73? Are the trips commutable at all? Im most interested in EWR and IAH. Thanks

 

[cal73cap]

Worked great for me too, however why not run the bid and then post results, see if everyone is pretty much happy or not and then rerun a final bid. This way you would have the chance to tweak as needed.

 

[glasspilot1]

Worked great for me too, however why not run the bid and then post results, see if everyone is pretty much happy or not and then rerun a final bid. This way you would have the chance to tweak as needed.

You'd open up a can of worms. After the second run, everybody that was happy with their original sked would be pi**ed if it changed for the worse.

 

[Deerkiller]

It's crap....all i wanted were two specific days off. It gave me a $hitty two day on those two days. Had it just left that trip off i would've had a legal line worth 78 hrs. Denied due to (let's all say it together) OVERALL SOLUTION CONSTRAINTS. Unfortunately, you can add this to the list of carrots the company will hold out in front of us during Contract '08 negotiations. "Give us XYZ and we'll fix PBS." I've emailed the union and they seem resigned to fight it during contract negotiations and not now. Wrong attitude if you ask me. And what was up with all the tough talk and then they allow them to run bids late?

 

[Bringupthebird]

Does CAL have Right-to-Fly and Capt-F/O no-fly provisions? This can cause problems with PBS. Also, make your bid as simple as possible and you'll have better luck.

 

[jetjockey#1]

Unfortunately, you can add this to the list of carrots the company will hold out in front of us during Contract '08 negotiations. "Give us XYZ and we'll fix PBS." I've emailed the union and they seem resigned to fight it during contract negotiations and not now. Wrong attitude if you ask me. And what was up with all the tough talk and then they allow them to run bids late?

I totally disagree with the union's response. I believe the union should fight it tooth and nail NOW. The company is not upholding their end of the bargain. PBS does not work, either fix it, or, back to the old system.

I just can't help it, but to accept the fact that we have a bunch of management wannabes in the union. Why else would you put up with a clear contract violation? which by the way, it's pissing every pilot off, except the two almighty fellows that posted earlier.

I reiterate my previous statement, the union is in place to represent the interest of its pilots, not the company's. PBS does not work, either fix it, or, back to the old system.

No more breaks to the company, no more delays, no more next month will be better, it either works, or, back to the old system. PBS is costing us a lot money, and a lot of time off.

 

[Ex737Driver]

I totally disagree with the union's response. I believe the union should fight it tooth and nail NOW. The company is not upholding their end of the bargain. PBS does not work, either fix it, or, back to the old system.

I just can't help it, but to accept the fact that we have a bunch of management wannabes in the union. Why else would you put up with a clear contract violation? which by the way, it's pissing every pilot off, except the two almighty fellows that posted eairlier.

I reiterate my previous statement, the union is in place to represent the interest of its pilots, not the company's. PBS does not work, either fix it, or, back to the old system.

No more breaks to the company, no more delays, no more next month will be better, it either works, or, back to the old system. PBS is costing us a lot money, just ask the heavy guys, and a lot of time off.

I agree and I disagree. The system does seem to work and it does seem to have problems at the same time. I do agree that the union needs a tougher stance and needs to follow through with drawing a line in the sand but I don't think PBS pisses every pilot off. I do agree that PBS is causing pilots on the 777 and 756 BES to lose pay but 58% of our pilot group passed concessionary '02. I have no sympathy for pilots bitching who voted for this. By the way, I went into denial mode 4 for January.

 

[Deerkiller]

I agree and I disagree. The system does seem to work and it does seem to have problems at the same time. I do agree that the union needs a tougher stance and needs to follow through with drawing a line in the sand but I don't think PBS pisses every pilot off. I do agree that PBS is causing pilots on the 777 and 756 BES to lose pay but 58% of our pilot group passed concessionary '02. I have no sympathy for pilots bitching who voted for this. By the way, I went into denial mode 4 for January.

Just for the record...i wasnt on property when this was voted in. I'm back into denial for January as well.

 

[Deerkiller]

PBS is costing us a lot money, and a lot of time off.

Ah, there is the problem. While it costs us money, days off, QOL, etc. The company is saving tons by having over 50% of the seniority list fly 85+ hours each month. They are gonna drag their feet all the way. I dont blame them, but we need to play the game too.

Everyone needs to make it clear, if it cant work within the constraints of the contract, then we should say, "PBS denied due to OVERALL SOLUTION CONSTRAINTS."

dk

Hey, this is my 100th post.:beer: General Lee watch out.

 

[whymeworry?]

It works great for me!

Good for you. As long as you got yours, right? PBS works great for me as well but the fact is that more than 40% of our pilot group is suffering under it and that's not right. If my flying commrades are getting the royal shaft with this POS scheduling system then I am most certainly concerned. THIS, my dear friend, is what unionism is all about.

I know you're probably just trying to explain that PBS works for some, and I don't mean to attack your stance as a unionist, but I am trying to make a point here. PBS is broken, it never worked as it should in the first place and we as CAL pilots need to rally behind each other to make it right for everyone. I'm not saying it needs to give every pilot exactly what they want, afterall it it is a system that honors seniority, but it needs to at least respect the lifestyles of 2/3 of the pilot group rather than 1/3 as it seems to be doing now.

The problem with the system at present is that we are severly understaffed so it will not build FAIR lines beyond the first 55% of any sub-base. If the company were forced to staff properly, life would change for an additional 40% of the pilots. I was told that if staffing on the 73 increased just 3%, then 40% more pilots would get more or less what they're asking for.

Now, the problem with the pilots is there is too much "I got mine" in that first 45% of the said subbase. Meaning, guys are thinking as long as it works for them that's all that matters.

A good friend of mine is bidding 62% in EWR on the 73. Not incredibly senior but not junior either. He gets his 20th bid group (last one) every month with almost no constraints set except "award work"/ "avoid work" on certain days. His life was considerably better under pre-constructed lines. I also read that unless you're in the top 45% of the EWR 756 you're not going to do any better than 12 days off per month. The 75 is an INTERNATIONAL long-haul aircraft now. Certainly, int'l guys ought to be receiving more days off than that for going through all the time-zone changes and European bs they deal with. There is absolutely no incentive to be on that aircraft any longer other than a larger cockpit iof the aforementioned is true.

 

[whymeworry?]

I was also told by a triple 7 capt that they company is allowing them to fly beyond the bid cap and looking the other way about the 1000 hr/ year deal. In otherwords, they are cutting seperate deals with the triple 7 guys. That is not right.