More terminations at FLOPS

[DO-82 driver]

Turbo....I commend you for your pride....I felt the same way you do now when I walked the line against Lorenzo.

 

[IronManNDFW]

The difference is that Mother will kill it's last child to stop a Union. When we were seperate companies we were both cash cows. However Mother Raytheon kept hiring idiots to kill off our company.

Looks like they are accelerating the pace, giving the continuing insanity and stupididity practiced by our CEO & DO.

What a shame. I think I'll offer Mother .05 for the whole shebang and see if she bites!

 

[Freedom]

Doom and Gloom? We STILL are a Cash Cow!

Think about this:

When someone buys an Airplane Share, they are paying their share cost, whether it be 1/16th, 1/4, or somewhere in between at Full Retail Price!

Can you imagine the Profits at your local Car Lot if everyone paid Sticker? That is what's happening at Flight Options.

Then, the Owners sign a 5 to 7 year Contract to cover all the Fixed Costs of Operating the Jet over 5 to 7 years, even if it never moves an inch.

Should said Owner wish to actually use their Share, they are then hit up with an Hourly Fee to cover costs such as Fuel, Deice, Ground Services, etc, all be it at an inflated rate.

What a Racket!

Why do they pay these insane costs to fly Privately? The Fractional's Safety Record. To date, an Owner has yet to be killed by one of the Big 4 Fractional Providers. Compare that to the Charter Fatal Crashes making the News left and right.

If an Owner wants the Safety of Corporate Flying, but cannot justify the cost of owning the airplane outright, Fractional is his only option.

So do I see the doors closing because of a sale of Raytheon Aircraft? I do not. We are still a Cash Cow. But the risk I do see is that if we continue to let Scheeriga degrade our Quality of Life down to the Commuter level, with the dynamic flying environment we operate in, eventually, something is going to give, a Crew will make a terrible mistake, and the first Owner Fatality at the Fractionals will be at Flight Options. That is more of a threat to our existence than anything else.

We need to come together as a Pilot Group, stand up to Scheeringa, and send him packing. If we don't, the Day I spoke of will be lurking closer and closer. Scheeringa is the threat to our existence, not a Liquidation.

Keep that in mind the next time you consider doing the Company a Favor by looking the other way. Scheeringa's job performance is based upon him hitting the numbers given to him by the Board. If he does not, he is History.

Freedom.

 

[nerdpilot]

Guys I did 7.5 years with Flops. Call it what you want but I have closely followed the health of the company very closely from the good ole Ricci days until the current $hitringa buffoonery. If this sounds like you : " Hey I will ride this until the end afterall I am sitting in the left seat of my hawker making $68,000 per year and Net Jets got their contract and we will two" or " I know I have been in the rt seat for 5 years but with things in the crapper here lots of guys are leaving and I will be able to move up rapidly when we get our contract"

If either of those statements represent your mindset I highly suggest you take every penny you have the next time you are in LAS walk over to the hard rock and throw it all down on the roulette table because your chances are better.

Raytheon is selling the Biz jet division, Flops has been losing millions and millions regardless of their continuous cost cutting measures, The big jets or a large majority of them have been sold leaving that craphole legacy that the high rollers hate because they think it is a glorified commuter, Your benefits are going through the roof, MX bases are being shut down, and they have a so called surplus of employees.

Wake up guys this company is not viable for a buy out by anyone.. The ONLY thing of value is the Aircraft and once the deal is closed with Raytheon for their aircraft division and their is no fear of bad blood with perspective customers that got hosed the board of directors will exercise their clause in the contract to buy out the customers take a one time loss and close the doors..

I truly hope you are smart enough to get plan B into action asap as Scheeringa is not making short term decisions for the long term viability of Flops

Unity with your IBT brothers are not going to save this sinking ship unfortunately

Somebody is making sense........sounds like a logical pilot always having a way out. The bottom of Flops senority has had plenty of warning about the possibility of losing their jobs and still they stay for hopefully a very good reason. I know flops likes to hire guys with little to no experience or guys without a degree or guys with violations or dwi's. Hopefully the union will have a contract before the place goes belly up but that is a longshot. Take your type ratings and run to Columbus and work for a company with a real future.

 

[clickclickboom]

Not everyone has or wants a "plan B".

Some of us still live our lives, based on what's right. Letting little temporary slimeballs like Sheeringa drive us from our homes is not right.

Call me a boy scout, if you like, but I'll continue to live on my feet and not my knees. I may not make it through the day with this company, but I'll be either upright or prone when I leave. Not some position in between.

You are exactly what $hitringa uses to giggle himself to bed at night.. He says to himself: " Look at all these tools talking about fighting the noble battle with me while i line my pockets in preparation for my goldenparachute" You dont even know it but you already lost the battle.

Personally I won I extended my middle finger in salute and went to a company that apopreciates my contributions.

Wake up my man they dont like unemployed pilots bringing their kids to the soup kitchen

 

[clickclickboom]

Think about this:

When someone buys an Airplane Share, they are paying their share cost, whether it be 1/16th, 1/4, or somewhere in between at Full Retail Price!

Can you imagine the Profits at your local Car Lot if everyone paid Sticker? That is what's happening at Flight Options.

Then, the Owners sign a 5 to 7 year Contract to cover all the Fixed Costs of Operating the Jet over 5 to 7 years, even if it never moves an inch.

Should said Owner wish to actually use their Share, they are then hit up with an Hourly Fee to cover costs such as Fuel, Deice, Ground Services, etc, all be it at an inflated rate.

What a Racket!

Why do they pay these insane costs to fly Privately? The Fractional's Safety Record. To date, an Owner has yet to be killed by one of the Big 4 Fractional Providers. Compare that to the Charter Fatal Crashes making the News left and right.

If an Owner wants the Safety of Corporate Flying, but cannot justify the cost of owning the airplane outright, Fractional is his only option.

So do I see the doors closing because of a sale of Raytheon Aircraft? I do not. We are still a Cash Cow. But the risk I do see is that if we continue to let Scheeriga degrade our Quality of Life down to the Commuter level, with the dynamic flying environment we operate in, eventually, something is going to give, a Crew will make a terrible mistake, and the first Owner Fatality at the Fractionals will be at Flight Options. That is more of a threat to our existence than anything else.

We need to come together as a Pilot Group, stand up to Scheeringa, and send him packing. If we don't, the Day I spoke of will be lurking closer and closer. Scheeringa is the threat to our existence, not a Liquidation.

Keep that in mind the next time you consider doing the Company a Favor by looking the other way. Scheeringa's job performance is based upon him hitting the numbers given to him by the Board. If he does not, he is History.

Freedom.

Can you please explain the $115,000,000 loss in 2005?

Here was a typical 2 to 3 days at flops in the Hawker

Day 1. Airline to EWR Sedan to TEB repo to PBI
Day 2 PBI to HPN with PAX REPO to MYNN Live back to FLL up to ATL
Day 3 ATL repo to DAL Dal with T Boone up to Pampa Repo to MRY
Day 4 MRY to SNA repo to Cabo, Cabo to SDL then up to SMF

Spend $25000 in repo and make $18000 in occupied revenue..

Or this was my favorite. CJ owner in HPN going to PIT for a business.. No Cj's to cover the trips but the GIV is sitting in PBI repo in the IV to fly a 45 min flight then repo them back to PBI..

Or another time I was in TEB going to PDX and a Beechjet sorry Hawker 400 had a pre flt mx issue.. They pulled us off our trip to cover their trip which was TEB IAD and chartered a GIII from Jet Aviation to take out pax to SDL.. No Freaking Lie they repo'ed us to SDL to cover the trip the next day back to TEB.. I called in asking why they were doing this if they had to pay for the GIII to repo back to TEB and they told me that it is what it is and the next comment from them was" ARE YOU REFUSING THIS TRIP??" I said absolutely not and topped her off and off we went. I would say the company probably blew about $60000 on this one trip alone..

The cycle continues on and on unfortunately the repo hours can sometimes beat the occupied hours and this was year after year.. By reducing their fleet size FLOPS is just making the situation worse and compounding this issue is 1. The 1600 hr utilization of a biz jets that is made to operate 200 hrs per year and 2. The closing of out MX bases..

The writing is on the wall my friends

 

[Freedom]

Learn from Netjets Experience......

Can you please explain the $115,000,000 loss in 2005?

Here was a typical 2 to 3 days at flops in the Hawker

Day 1. Airline to EWR Sedan to TEB repo to PBI
Day 2 PBI to HPN with PAX REPO to MYNN Live back to FLL up to ATL
Day 3 ATL repo to DAL Dal with T Boone up to Pampa Repo to MRY
Day 4 MRY to SNA repo to Cabo, Cabo to SDL then up to SMF

Spend $25000 in repo and make $18000 in occupied revenue..

Or this was my favorite. CJ owner in HPN going to PIT for a business.. No Cj's to cover the trips but the GIV is sitting in PBI repo in the IV to fly a 45 min flight then repo them back to PBI..

Or another time I was in TEB going to PDX and a Beechjet sorry Hawker 400 had a pre flt mx issue.. They pulled us off our trip to cover their trip which was TEB IAD and chartered a GIII from Jet Aviation to take out pax to SDL.. No Freaking Lie they repo'ed us to SDL to cover the trip the next day back to TEB.. I called in asking why they were doing this if they had to pay for the GIII to repo back to TEB and they told me that it is what it is and the next comment from them was" ARE YOU REFUSING THIS TRIP??" I said absolutely not and topped her off and off we went. I would say the company probably blew about $60000 on this one trip alone..

The cycle continues on and on unfortunately the repo hours can sometimes beat the occupied hours and this was year after year.. By reducing their fleet size FLOPS is just making the situation worse and compounding this issue is 1. The 1600 hr utilization of a biz jets that is made to operate 200 hrs per year and 2. The closing of out MX bases..

The writing is on the wall my friends

$115,000,000?????

Give me a break.

Netjets posted huge loses, yes even larger than the one you mentioned, prior to reaching a Contract settlement with their Pilots.

Then, by some stroke a Magic, after their Pilots received between 40-60% Pay Increases, not to mention Back Pay Bonus Checks, somehow, Magically, in the 1st and 2nd Quarters of 2006 they, Netjets Management, announced they were suddenly Profitable!

Although Owned by Raytheon, Flight Options, LLC is a Privately held company. They can make the numbers look anyway they want partner.

If the accountants at Netjets (Berkshire Hathaway) are smart enough to screw with the numbers during Negotiations, I'm sure the accountants at Raytheon are just as capable.

Believe what you wish, but ask yourself: Who does it benefit during Negotiations if Flight Options cries Poor Mouth, just like Netjets did.

Doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to figure out we are a Cash Cow. And as for long repos, doesn't cost Flight Options to further depreciate the Owner's asset, now does it? Jet fuel is pretty cheap when compared to Chartering, and that Jet Fuel, as well as some Chartering, is factored into what our Owners pay in Monthly Management Fees.

But yes, if you don't have the Balls to ride out the potential downside of this fight, it probably is best that you leave. Those that stay have a huge fight before us. Anyone even considering staying needs to become a Member in Good Standing with their Union, Now.

Freedom.

 

[dime line]

Those that stay have a huge fight before us. Anyone even considering staying needs to become a Member in Good Standing with their Union, Now.


So true

 

[clickclickboom]

$115,000,000?????

Give me a break.

Netjets posted huge loses, yes even larger than the one you mentioned, prior to reaching a Contract settlement with their Pilots.

Then, by some stroke a Magic, after their Pilots received between 40-60% Pay Increases, not to mention Back Pay Bonus Checks, somehow, Magically, in the 1st and 2nd Quarters of 2006 they, Netjets Management, announced they were suddenly Profitable!

Although Owned by Raytheon, Flight Options, LLC is a Privately held company. They can make the numbers look anyway they want partner.

If the accountants at Netjets (Berkshire Hathaway) are smart enough to screw with the numbers during Negotiations, I'm sure the accountants at Raytheon are just as capable.

Believe what you wish, but ask yourself: Who does it benefit during Negotiations if Flight Options cries Poor Mouth, just like Netjets did.

Doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to figure out we are a Cash Cow. And as for long repos, doesn't cost Flight Options to further depreciate the Owner's asset, now does it? Jet fuel is pretty cheap when compared to Chartering, and that Jet Fuel, as well as some Chartering, is factored into what our Owners pay in Monthly Management Fees.

But yes, if you don't have the Balls to ride out the potential downside of this fight, it probably is best that you leave. Those that stay have a huge fight before us. Anyone even considering staying needs to become a Member in Good Standing with their Union, Now.

Freedom.

Yes BUT Ops is owned by Raytheon which is not private.. The numbers were on their balance sheet in a presentation to their board of directors. The $115,000,000 was an operational loss for Flight Options.. I hardly think the Bean Counters at Raytheon were illegally cooking the books for the benefit of Options temporary managers crying about a non existent union that had not yet been voted in..

 

[Freedom]

On your line of thinking.........

Yes BUT Ops is owned by Raytheon which is not private.. The numbers were on their balance sheet in a presentation to their board of directors. The $115,000,000 was an operational loss for Flight Options.. I hardly think the Bean Counters at Raytheon were illegally cooking the books for the benefit of Options temporary managers crying about a non existent union that had not yet been voted in..

You mean like Berkshire Hathaway is NOT private, yet owns privately held Netjets????????????????

Dude. Go talk to a sharp Corporate Accountant.

How do you account for Netjets "sudden" turnaround after their Labor Costs increased by over 50%?????

Crying Poverty is the Oldest Game in the Book when dealing with employees.

Pilots need to wake up and stop smoking the Company Crack.

Freedom.

 

[Ultra Grump]

The funny thing is you guys are both essentially arguing the same point.

 

[chingaso]

If Netjets would allow me as a newbie to live where I wanted I might have jumped ship. But they don't, so I didnt. There isn't a pilot I know of at FLOPS that doesn't want to get the hell out of here, but real life is real life, and for some of us its better to fight for what we have and not allow a pencil-neck that doesn't have a clue about private jet aviation to ruin our company. If there is a better job available then that is one thing, but I"m not gonna leave until that job comes along. I can sit in an FBO with my Netjets brothers and sisters and sometimes it sounds like we all work for the same company. There's just as much stupid sh** going on over there. If the pilots at Netjets would have cut and run when the going got tough, they wouldn't have the contract they have now. FLOPS pilots are in that boat now and are hearing the same smoke-and-mirror bullsh** that Netjets people used to hear before their new contract. Its easy to sit back and benefit from other people's hard work and ride a boat you had no hand in building, while patting yourself on the back for making a smart move. Way to go and good for you. But don't ridicule others for not choosing as you did.

 

[brokeflyer]

If Netjets would allow me as a newbie to live where I wanted I might have jumped ship. But they don't, so I didnt. There isn't a pilot I know of at FLOPS that doesn't want to get the hell out of here, but real life is real life, and for some of us its better to fight for what we have and not allow a pencil-neck that doesn't have a clue about private jet aviation to ruin our company. If there is a better job available then that is one thing, but I"m not gonna leave until that job comes along. I can sit in an FBO with my Netjets brothers and sisters and sometimes it sounds like we all work for the same company. There's just as much stupid sh** going on over there. If the pilots at Netjets would have cut and run when the going got tough, they wouldn't have the contract they have now. FLOPS pilots are in that boat now and are hearing the same smoke-and-mirror bullsh** that Netjets people used to hear before their new contract. Its easy to sit back and benefit from other people's hard work and ride a boat you had no hand in building, while patting yourself on the back for making a smart move. Way to go and good for you. But don't ridicule others for not choosing as you did.

well said......us netjets guys and gals are here to help you any way we can....it's gonna suck, it's gonna take a long time and your all gonna wanna kill each other........but in the end you will feel better.....Next time you see a netjet pilot....please go talk.....get information. We may be competing companies but we as pilots work for the same reasons and want the same things.....we love to fly, we wanna be home with our families and we want and deserve the best working envrironment we can get.

 

[clickclickboom]

You mean like Berkshire Hathaway is NOT private, yet owns privately held Netjets????????????????

Dude. Go talk to a sharp Corporate Accountant.

How do you account for Netjets "sudden" turnaround after their Labor Costs increased by over 50%?????

Crying Poverty is the Oldest Game in the Book when dealing with employees.

Pilots need to wake up and stop smoking the Company Crack.

Freedom.

Dude you win after 7 years + and a double digit seniority number I quit for greener pastures.. I have an opinion I expressed it I made my decision and whats done is done.. I truly feel for those of you that are fighting the battle each and every day. There are some HUGE HUGE differences between the company company NJA was and the company Flops is prior to a contract.. HUGE...

 

[nerdpilot]

If Netjets would allow me as a newbie to live where I wanted I might have jumped ship. But they don't, so I didnt. There isn't a pilot I know of at FLOPS that doesn't want to get the hell out of here, but real life is real life, and for some of us its better to fight for what we have and not allow a pencil-neck that doesn't have a clue about private jet aviation to ruin our company. If there is a better job available then that is one thing, but I"m not gonna leave until that job comes along. I can sit in an FBO with my Netjets brothers and sisters and sometimes it sounds like we all work for the same company. There's just as much stupid sh** going on over there. If the pilots at Netjets would have cut and run when the going got tough, they wouldn't have the contract they have now. FLOPS pilots are in that boat now and are hearing the same smoke-and-mirror bullsh** that Netjets people used to hear before their new contract. Its easy to sit back and benefit from other people's hard work and ride a boat you had no hand in building, while patting yourself on the back for making a smart move. Way to go and good for you. But don't ridicule others for not choosing as you did.

Netjets was never going anywhere..........but you are holding out for a company that will no longer be in a handful of years. How can you even compare the two. You are on a sinking ship and the ones who had the balls to sacrafice now and grab a lifeboat will watch you go down with the M.S. durdbucket and your wasted hopes the company fed to you right up until they were airlifted away by mother ratheon.