Here comes age 70

[filejw]

• • 

DATE:28/11/06
SOURCE:Flight International

70
By David Learmount

JAA medical committee sees nothing against fit crew

The European Joint Aviation Authorities medical committee has agreed that there is "no medical reason" why airline pilots should not be permitted to continue flying until they reach 70 years of age.
The finding has been revealed as an International Civil Aviation Organisation resolution permitting pilots to fly to age 65 was implemented last week.
Speaking at Flight International's Crew Management Conference in Brussels last week, aviation medical consultant Dr Ian Perry said that the JAA medical committee has agreed that a fit 70-year-old should not be prevented from commanding a commercial air transport aircraft on medical grounds.
At the conference, the chairman of the Singapore Civil Aviation Medical Board, Dr Jarnail Singh, who also chaired the ultra-long-range task force and is a member of the Flight Safety Foundation crew alertness committee, said that in examinations of factors affecting crew fitness to work on ultra-long-range flights - such as Singapore-New York non-stop - pilot age was determined not to be an issue.
Perry, meanwhile, said that while airlines find clinical diagnosis of chronic fatigue "difficult to accept", if an accident is fatigue-related the airline is responsible for it. While making it clear that such events were rare, he revealed that the reduced freedom of movement imposed on long-haul pilots by the need to lock cockpit doors has resulted in flightcrew sleeping on the floor behind the pilot seats.
The US Federal Aviation Administration has set up a forum to investigate if US commercial pilots should be allowed to fly past the age of 60, in line with the new ICAO rules.
ICAO has increased the upper age limit for pilots to 65, provided that one of the pilots in the cockpit is under 60. Medical experts and FAA personnel will be joined by representatives from airlines and pilot unions in the Age 60 Aviation Rulemaking Committee to examine whether the USA should follow suit.

 

[BIGGOAT]

Anybody see the commercial for the upcoming "Rocky Balboa" movie. Someday Sly will release "Rocky 12" when he is 85 years of age. What does this have to so with airline pilots? Glad you asked. At some point it is time to hang it up. 60 or 65 should do but 70 year old airlines pilots...ummmmm NO! It would be funny, though, to see a 70 year old captain hitting on a 72 year old F/A.....


Goat

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

The age limit will be going HIGHER than 70, at some point.

I don't know the exact stats, but when age 60 was implemented, I think the average US male lifespan was about 65. Now, it's much higher than that, and it has a lot of potential to climb.

I've read several people that have said if u can make it for another 50 years, you should be able to virtually live forever.

So, if the average death age is 120, or 150, or 300, then flying to the age of 70 will be nothing, and, in fact, people will want to and will be required to work long, long after they're 70 years old, to support themselves and all those 150+-yr. old retirees.

cliff
GRB

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Dear God.........not only will you have to listen to the old farts, you'll have to change their depends diaper too.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

I've read several people that have said if u can make it for another 50 years, you should be able to virtually live forever.

<<
Life expectancy increased dramatically in the 20th century, especially in developed nations. Life expectancy at birth in the United States in 1901 was 49 years. At the end of the century it was 77 years, an increase of 57%. Similar gains have been enjoyed throughout the world. These gains were due largely to the eradication and control of numerous infectious diseases and to advances in agricultural technology (such as chemical fertilizers).

Basic life expectancy numbers tend to exaggerate this growth, however. The low level of pre-modern life expectancy is distorted by the previous extremely high infant and childhood mortality. If a person did make it to the age of forty they had an average of another twenty years to live. Improvements in medicine, public health, and nutrition have therefore mainly increased the numbers of people living beyond childhood, with less effect on overall average lifespan.

>>
(borrowed from some boring internet source)


BBB

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Great point Bear Belly about the lower end of the charts

Longer life expectancy has little to do with extending the authority to be PIC on a Part 121 operation.

As far as the upper end of the life expectancy charts, increasing the charts through technological advances such as knee replacements, hip replacements, drugs, stints, and other devices and techniques that promote increased activity and longevity, it does not equate with safety in the left seat. Knee replacements can cause clots that have higher stroke potential. Drugs may be incompatible with an 8000 foot cabin altitude while perfectly safe at a constant pressure altitude. Longevity advances do not equal longer pilot work lives. Longevity advances can be longer office work lives but thats apples and oranges.

Part 91 operations are fine to operate indefinitely as the pilot only is responsible to himself and the private individuals in his care. The general public is not at risk because of poor judgment. And if the public became at risk by an old pilot losing control and hitting a building national security issues would apply.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Aircraft improvements have been the variable increasing safety

I read Undauntedflyer and Klako extolling the virtues of pilot experience in relation to increasing safety.

Have you ever thought that the airplanes are just getting exponentially safer not the pilots. FOQA, TCAS, EGPWS, Windshear, improving Wx radar, etc.

And the biggie-- Jet Engines. And not only jet engines from the 1950's but the newest ones that allow ETOPS with failure rates of less than .001 per 1000 hours.

DC6 and DC7 lost an engine once a month. B737 lose an engine once every 100,000 hours if its an ETOPS maintained aircraft. And those figures are documented and required for ETOPS ops.

So cut the crap about pilots being better and better because they are older and older. Pilots have not exponentially increased the safety of air travel. New aircraft have done it.

We have reduced the cockpit to two pilots because of the electronic monitoring systems. And now with this increased age debate we are really only saying we need one pilot because it is ok if one dies at the controls.

SWAPA and JetBlue are going to get this age issue changed and then use the data to prove that all you need is an under 60 year old pilot and a working autopilot.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Revisionist history and STUBBORN OLD FARTS

I have read the accounts posted here about how CR Smith got the age 60 rule in place because he wanted to retire the top of the pay scale.

My understanding is that CR Smith wanted to retire the old pilots that were not trainable to fly the new B707. The DC 6 and DC 7 pilots flew those aircraft the way they flew the DC 3 and DC 4's, by feel. The DC 6 and 7 pilots did not fly profiles. They used their butts to get the job done. It was quickly realized that the B707 needed to be operated by the numbers. The B707 needed to be on speed, stabilized, configured properly at the right times, configured differently in certain emergencies unlike the feel flying which got the job done on the DC 6.

So CR Smith had a problem, let these old geezers stubbornly fly the B707 incorrectly and fight with them to do it right or phase them out gracefully.

And what do you know, CR Smith used his tact and abilities to make the right choice and phase out his problem, hence one of the major reasons age 60 happened.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

General Lee's point

Woman should automatically get five years more than men.

 

[jonjuan]

This "luckytohaveajob" is worse than my grandpa who goes on and on and on and on...........................

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

The life expectancy changes I was talking about are radically different than what has happened previously. Taking drugs, knee replacements, etc., will not be a factor, if this idea turns out to be correct.

Basically, advancing genetic research would enable the human body to be repaired just like an airplane.

When testing showed that your heart was at 70% capacity, or whatever standard is agreed upon, the lab would start growing you a new heart, from your own cells. When it was ready, your new heart would be installed.

Basically, your body parts would all be replaced when they hit their TBO, or their performance decreased to a specific level.

You could actually choose which body age you wanted. You could have a 20-year old body for several decades, then switch to a 65-year old one, and later to a 30-year old one.

I think it will pan out, but a big question is one of cost. It may be possible to virtually live forever, but it may be too expensive for many people.

It would be interesting to jump in a Boeing 989, and see a 20-year old captain, and then find out he was actually 275 years old!!!

cliff
GRB

 

[SNOWBUM]

pass the chronic bluntman.

Hi!

The life expectancy changes I was talking about are radically different than what has happened previously. Taking drugs, knee replacements, etc., will not be a factor, if this idea turns out to be correct.

Basically, advancing genetic research would enable the human body to be repaired just like an airplane.

When testing showed that your heart was at 70% capacity, or whatever standard is agreed upon, the lab would start growing you a new heart, from your own cells. When it was ready, your new heart would be installed.

Basically, your body parts would all be replaced when they hit their TBO, or their performance decreased to a specific level.

You could actually choose which body age you wanted. You could have a 20-year old body for several decades, then switch to a 65-year old one, and later to a 30-year old one.

I think it will pan out, but a big question is one of cost. It may be possible to virtually live forever, but it may be too expensive for many people.

It would be interesting to jump in a Boeing 989, and see a 20-year old captain, and then find out he was actually 275 years old!!!

cliff
GRB

that's some good Mary Jane you got there dude

 

[CaptBud330]

If they change the age to 65, will the pilots that were required to retire at 60 be permitted to return to the flight deck?

 

[BN2A]

If I have to fly until I'm 70, there better be a clause in airline contracts that the company is going to pay for my charcoal filtered underwear and Geritol!

 

[NuGuy]

Hi!

The life expectancy changes I was talking about are radically different than what has happened previously. Taking drugs, knee replacements, etc., will not be a factor, if this idea turns out to be correct.

Basically, advancing genetic research would enable the human body to be repaired just like an airplane.

cliff
GRB

Current research shows that's NOT how aging works. Eventually, no matter how many parts you replace, you croak from DNA degredation.

There are two factors to this. First, is programmed cell death, through telemere shortenting. Every time your cells divide, their genome gets a bit shorter due to the way eukaryotic DNA works. There are segments on the end of each chromosome, called telomeres, that protect the coding DNA from degredation, but only for a certain number of division cycles. Once the chromosole gets too short, it starts to affect coding regions of the DNA, and bingo, cell death.

The other significant aging factor are gradual point mutations. One or two is no biggie, but overtime, uncorrected point mutations add up, and start to affect the way protiens are expressed in the cell. Things just don't work the way they used to OR you get a tumor, and there is NO way to correct this damage.

There is no quick fix to aging. No silver bullet. You can replace all you want, but eventually, your CNS craps out or you get cancer.

Nu

 

[Ben Thare]

Nu,

Based on your already faltering command of the English language, I would have to surmise that you are in your late 60's. Am I close?

 

[SNOWBUM]

lets not forget the dangers of invasive surgery. they need to invent a way to administer new healthy young cells into your body and allow those to reproduce and block the productions of old ones, thus preventing cancer, hardening of arteries, bone,cartilage and muscle loss, and all the other maladies associated with aging that have nothing to do with organs or joints ( albeit cartilage does have to do with joint funtion).

that said bluntman, pass that dam chronic!!!

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

What if they grew a whole new body for you, and then just transplanted your brain???

cliff
YIP

 

[NuGuy]

Hi!

What if they grew a whole new body for you, and then just transplanted your brain???

cliff
YIP

It probably wouldn't work if they took cells to clone you from your present day body. They figure the point mutation issue with DNA is why most animal clones have significantly shorter lifespans than the cell donor.

Nu

 

[Piper877]

I'm not trying to start anything here, but has there ever been a case where someone just slumped over at the controls? Not due to pressurization failure, or the old frozen goose at 350 but old age/natural causes? I have a feeling it's happened, but I'm not familiar with any documented cases. I'd be curious to read about some.

 

[ultrarunner]

If they change the age to 65, will the pilots that were required to retire at 60 be permitted to return to the flight deck?

I believe it's been discussed that you have to be "on-property" (i.e. not retired) to get the "bonus years".

 

[SNOWBUM]

I'm not trying to start anything here, but has there ever been a case where someone just slumped over at the controls? Not due to pressurization failure, or the old frozen goose at 350 but old age/natural causes? I have a feeling it's happened, but I'm not familiar with any documented cases. I'd be curious to read about some.

Actually pilot incapacitation happens more often and is more comon than any other reported inflight emergency.

 

[100 c.i.]

I guess all cockpits will be wheelchair accessible, and the F/O duty is to whip the captains ass.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

NuGuy:
What if they took cells from u right when u were born, and then cryogenically stored them for use years later?

cliff
YIP

 

[NuGuy]

I believe it's been discussed that you have to be "on-property" (i.e. not retired) to get the "bonus years".

It's true, that's they way that the law was to be written, BUT, you can bet your bottom dollar that there were lawsuits already warming up over that by the age 60 crowd.

Nu

 

[NuGuy]

Hi!

NuGuy:
What if they took cells from u right when u were born, and then cryogenically stored them for use years later?

cliff
YIP

Heyas Cliff,

That might work. It would take lots of forsight and a heap big pile of $$$$. Then there is the question about long term viability of the cells in storage. It would be a real bummer if you needed a new liver and they found that your "package" had freezer burn.

Here's the kicker. Spontaneous mutations in DNA happen, even without mutagenic effects of anything. The very act of replication causes some, despite pretty darn good "proofreading" of the cell process. Even the chemical nature of DNA itself is subject to flip-floping (called tautomerization), which can cause errors in base pairs. In short, just the process of living can cause cancer.

Some folks have a genome that's pretty tight. They live to 120 smoking 3 packs a day while eating chicken fried in lard. Others inherit genomes that already have some built in problems and croak crossing the street at 40.

Nu

 

[Jolly Roger]

I guess all cockpits will be wheelchair accessible, and the F/O duty is to whip the captains ass.

If I'm going to whip the captain's ass, I will first dress him in a tight leather buttless outfit, shove a red rubber ball in his mouth and call him "the gimp".