Ferry Pilot Business

[Trader J]

Hi,

I have been thinking of starting a side business for ferrying airplanes. I want to be able to advertise myself and be totally legal. I know that as a commercial pilot under normal circumstances I am not able to advertise. So what is required in order to do this legally? Also is there insurance out there for ferry pilots? Any information is greatly appreciated.

Thanks, J

 

[gsrcrsx68]

You sure can advertise. Read 119.1 to start, then you can review faa docs regarding "holding out" which might be what is concerning you.

 

[unreal]

Hi,

I have been thinking of starting a side business for ferrying airplanes. I want to be able to advertise myself and be totally legal. I know that as a commercial pilot under normal circumstances I am not able to advertise. So what is required in order to do this legally? Also is there insurance out there for ferry pilots? Any information is greatly appreciated.

Thanks, J

I've been considering doing the same for side money next summer when my student load goes down the tubes. Just like the last poster said, read Part 119.1. It says that just like student instruction flights, ferry flights are not "air carrier" or "commercial operator" flight operations.

I'm curious though, how much business do you expect from a side business doing this? As I said, I'm looking to get my foot in the door, so I'm curious.

 

[FlySacto]

Hi,

I have been thinking of starting a side business for ferrying airplanes. I want to be able to advertise myself and be totally legal. I know that as a commercial pilot under normal circumstances I am not able to advertise. So what is required in order to do this legally? Also is there insurance out there for ferry pilots? Any information is greatly appreciated.

Thanks, J

You can advertise all day long!!! You are licensed to fly for hire. What you can't do is "hold out" to fly people in an airplane you have provided, or have operational control. That's illegal charter and where you don't want to go. If someone has an airplane, you can fly it all day long for whatever you can charge. Don't sell yourself cheap to fly right seat in a twin or ferry for peanuts. People will pay well for a professional!!! Good luck!

 

[Trader J]

Thanks!

 

[unreal]

You can advertise all day long!!! You are licensed to fly for hire. What you can't do is "hold out" to fly people in an airplane you have provided, or have operational control. That's illegal charter and where you don't want to go. If someone has an airplane, you can fly it all day long for whatever you can charge. Don't sell yourself cheap to fly right seat in a twin or ferry for peanuts. People will pay well for a professional!!! Good luck!

I don't mean to hijack this thread any (though this coincides with the OP's question), but I'm curious: Where did you find out that in order to be considered "holding out", you have to be providing the airplane or have operational control? I've known it like that as well, but I'm curious where the FAA has made a ruling on that. Maybe I'm just missing a reg somewhere, or it's way past my bedtime.

 

[FlySacto]

I don't mean to hijack this thread any (though this coincides with the OP's question), but I'm curious: Where did you find out that in order to be considered "holding out", you have to be providing the airplane or have operational control? I've known it like that as well, but I'm curious where the FAA has made a ruling on that. Maybe I'm just missing a reg somewhere, or it's way past my bedtime.

No problem! This is how the the knowledge gets passed along. We all gather around the flameing computer screens at night and pass the info around to the guys coming up. The thing is, that's also how the wrong interpretations and just plain wrong answers continue to live. Sorry but I can't give you a good source for the info/legal opinion on this since I went through my learning stage on this years back. There used to be Doc's FAR page that was one of the best resources on clearing up confusing issues and regs but it has been lost when the host site went off the net. You might try digging around the FAA's website but make sure you've got plenty of coffee before you start. It boils down that your doing pt135 charter just about every time you say "I can fly you there in my/their airplane". The party needing to fly must have operational control of the airplane; ie- they can pick a pilot to fly the airplane from any source they choose. You can offer the airplane for lease but not say one of my guys will fly it. I've dug around on getting a 135 certificate and the only loop hole is to offer exclusive rights to the airplane/pilot to one person/company under contract as a part 91 operation. Even this can be a gray area if you do this too many times and the FAA can start getting all over you for running a 135 operation.

Google can lead you into hours of mind numbing case studies/opinions on this stuff. As usual, my links on the FAA website have "moved" and I can't give you more to go on.

 

[avbug]

Where did you find out that in order to be considered "holding out", you have to be providing the airplane or have operational control?

You won't find that out, because it's incorrect. Holding out, and issues of operational control, are entirely indpendent to the thread subject...and have no bearing on ferrying airplanes.

Holding out means advertising yourself as a pilot. For a pilot holding a commercial certificate, this is not illegal. Holding out may be written, verbal, or by any other means, including your reputation.

What you hold out for, or in other words, what you say you'll do, does make a lot of difference.

Issues of operational control involve who determines what's going on with that flight. The pilot always has operational control, in any operation. The pilot is always the final word regarding w(h)eather that flight goes or not, and holds the final operational control. However, beyond that, the subject can become complicated, depending on the arrangements for the flight, ownership, payment, aircraft provision, etc.

If you're ferrying an aircraft from A to B, issues regarding operational control and holding out are irrelevant, so long as you're not transporting persons or property from A to B for hire. (Just to avoid future confusion, ferrying the aircraft itself for hire isn't the same as transporting someone's cat in the aircraft).

As a commercial pilot, you have the right to hold out your services. If you advertise a willingness to move aircraft for which you hold pilot privileges from A to B, and are able to secure the blessing of those who own or are entrusted with moving the aircraft, then have a ball. If the owner wants to ride along, have a ball. If your aunt mable finds out you're going and throws you a fifty to put her in the baggage compartment if you can get here there to her Canasta tourney by five o'clock, then you have a problem, and are entering into illegal charter territory. If the owner of the aircraft invites your aunt mable along as his guest, no problem, but if she pays for the trip, you're back into murky waters of the well if illegality again...even if she doesn't go and it's just her cat.

After all, how many cats do you know that can play canasta?