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Profit for United!

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Hey dude!!! did you go back?
 
UAL-GSO said:
Nice to hear some good news once in a while!
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Actually, this is just the beginning....Watch what happens over the next year with the legacy's making money. The LCC's are going to have to adjust. My bet (and you can take that for what its worth...Nothing), All the legacy's will continue to profit. Look for DL & NW to post profits once BK is finalized and they have their costs in line. Look at how US Air is doing now! Everyone had them pegged for dead 2 years ago!

737
 
Not really.

You have to ask yourself, is it REALLY a profit? Until they get their RIGHTFUL pensions back (and they wont) and get their pay back (and they wont for a long, long, time) this is nothing more than a VIRTUAL profit for an airline. And the same goes for the rest of the bankruptcy club. But hey, at least Glenn got his 40% raise.

g-code said:
$190 million post-tax profit for the third quarter. Congrats to all the UA guys over there.



http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/061031/cgtu012.html?.v=74
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737 Pylt said:
Actually, this is just the beginning....Watch what happens over the next year with the legacy's making money. The LCC's are going to have to adjust. My bet (and you can take that for what its worth...Nothing), All the legacy's will continue to profit. Look for DL & NW to post profits once BK is finalized and they have their costs in line. Look at how US Air is doing now! Everyone had them pegged for dead 2 years ago!
Click to expand...

well....my bet, (and mine also is worth about nothing) is that as the Legacys make more profits, the employees are going to demand their contributions back. Even the new ALPA President, Capt Prater has said as much. In fact there is already some informational picketing planned for November 18 in CLT and PHX...and Capt Prater has planned to participate. Why picket? Well, the pilots are demanding more in their current contract talks, which aren't going too well, while the company continues to make profits.

The head of the mechanics TWU at the AA maintenance hangar in TUL has already said publicly that he wants to help put money in AA's pockets now because in 2008, he plans to put his hand in that pocket and take a bunch of that money out.

What'll that do to costs? Anybody? Will we see another "Summer of Love"....or a "Parity plus One"?

Tejas
 
737 Pylt said:
Actually, this is just the beginning....Watch what happens over the next year with the legacy's making money. The LCC's are going to have to adjust. My bet (and you can take that for what its worth...Nothing), All the legacy's will continue to profit. Look for DL & NW to post profits once BK is finalized and they have their costs in line. Look at how US Air is doing now! Everyone had them pegged for dead 2 years ago!

737
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Tough situation for the LCC's. WN will not be able to change until they get their payrolls in order. Employees will be more than happy to let them flounder until the situation become dire.

FL is in the worst position. Margins will come under increased pressure from DL and B6 in the next couple of years. I think B6 has placed a target on FL's back with their 190s. Joe Bob LeoFornio has said the 190 scares the crap out of them, and we will find out how much as I think Jetblue sees them as the future "weak sister." F9 may also have some problems if UAL decides to bleed them out of Denver.

Jetblue is still up in the air, but Wall St. seems to think their productivity restructuring will keep them in the black in 2007. Time will tell for Neeleman and Co.

Someone mentioned the legacy's will grind themselves back into the ground with future contracts. Let' hope that's not the case, but in this business....you never know.

:pimp: ​
 
I think you're full of crap LoweCure. In fact, I dumped over 1,000 shares of Embraer stock Monday morning after a 30% gain in less than a year. I rode the wave of ERJ-190 hype up and am not going to ride that wave back down. Jetblue just might cancel the order for remaining A/C and what will that do to an airline like Delta, who is considering a huge order of 100 seaters soon?? I don't think JetBlue is strong enough to put the squeeze on anyone, especially AirTran. AirTran will continue to conservatively expand and offer more point to point service and possible merge with a legacy in the future. They run a good airline and can compliment a legacy where as Jetblue is so far from a traditional airline that they will not be able to find a dance partner save Frontier when the music stops.

Of course, that's just my opinion and it is now worth 1.5 cents due to the continued devaluation of the dollar.

IAHERJ
 
lowecur said:
Tough situation for the LCC's. WN will not be able to change until they get their payrolls in order. Employees will be more than happy to let them flounder until the situation become dire.

FL is in the worst position. Margins will come under increased pressure from DL and B6 in the next couple of years. I think B6 has placed a target on FL's back with their 190s. Joe Bob LeoFornio has said the 190 scares the crap out of them, and we will find out how much as I think Jetblue sees them as the future "weak sister." F9 may also have some problems if UAL decides to bleed them out of Denver.

Jetblue is still up in the air, but Wall St. seems to think their productivity restructuring will keep them in the black in 2007. Time will tell for Neeleman and Co.

Someone mentioned the legacy's will grind themselves back into the ground with future contracts. Let' hope that's not the case, but in this business....you never know.
Click to expand...

What are you smoking??? You say that WN's employees will be more than happy to let WN flounder? What evidence do you have to back up this statement? While the pilots are in contract negotiations, I have yet to fly with one who sees pay as a contractual issue.

"F9 may also have some problems if UAL decides to bleed them out of DEN"? Are you kidding???? OK....so tell us why UAL hasn't yet decided to "bleed them" out of DEN ? F9 has only been operating out of DEN for a decade or more. Why didn't UAL decide to "bleed" them out years ago? All of a sudden this is the strategy? Did UAL management just now notice that F9 operates out of DEN?

Tejas
 
lowecur said:
Tough situation for the LCC's. WN will not be able to change until they get their payrolls in order. Employees will be more than happy to let them flounder until the situation become dire.
Click to expand...


Wow. "Payrolls in order"? "Employees will be happy to let them flounder"? Dude, you're taking your lunacy to a whole new level. Just because nearly every other airline has whacked their pilots' pay into oblivion, resulting in SWA's pay being highest, we're now to believe that SWA's pay structure is out of order? And you have a real barometer on how SWA pilots feel about pay. You're intuition is making my head swim. It's swimming, I tell you!

And to second what was mentioned above, it is absolutely naive to think that the legacies' pilots (et al.) will forever be fat, dumb, and happy with 30-40% less pay and their employers enjoying newfound profits. I have heard personal testimonies from those at American that they will now be negotiating for recovered pay, and if they don't get it, there will be hell to pay.

Also, let's not forget the ridiculous levels of debt that the legacies possess. I'd hesitate before declaring the legacies' recovery complete.
 
Man, where are all those nay sayers who were adamant in criticizing UAL's business plan because they could only focus on its inclusion of 50 dollar oil????? Doomed to fail, they implied. "One of these things don't look like the others........." they said. I guess there was more to the UAL exit plan than just one component.......fuel costs.

Those short-sighted statements aside, I think we need to see several more quarters of NET profits before any legacy employee even thinks about getting comfortable again. I suspect we'll see some money losing quarters over the winter unfortunately.
 
IAHERJ said:
I think you're full of crap LoweCure. Yeah, that's why you made 30%. In fact, I dumped over 1,000 shares of Embraer stock Monday morning after a 30% gain in less than a year. We'll I'm up 300% and plan to ride the wave quite a bit longer. I rode the wave of ERJ-190 hype up and am not going to ride that wave back down. Jetblue just might cancel the order for remaining A/C Really? where's your source? and what will that do to an airline like Delta, who is considering a huge order of 100 seaters soon?? I guess they'll have to buy the Chinese ARJ, or the CRJ900X.:laugh: I don't think JetBlue is strong enough to put the squeeze on anyone, especially AirTran. I think Jetblue will get plenty of help from the other carriers. AirTran will continue to conservatively expand and offer more point to point service and possible merge with a legacy in the future. Just where are they going to expand without a challenge from B6? They run a good airline and can compliment a legacy where as Jetblue is so far from a traditional airline that they will not be able to find a dance partner save Frontier when the music stops.:laugh: :laugh:

Of course, that's just my opinion and it is now worth 1.5 cents due to the continued devaluation of the dollar.

IAHERJ
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.....

:pimp:​
 
Tejas-Jet said:
What are you smoking??? Muchuacan. You say that WN's employees will be more than happy to let WN flounder? Yes. What evidence do you have to back up this statement? Just my jaded vision of the airline industry. While the pilots are in contract negotiations, I have yet to fly with one who sees pay as a contractual issue. You will be getting bits and pieces from this board in the next few yrs. Listen very carefully as they rationalize the fact that all they want is to keep what they have and maybe give up a little to productivity. Listen to statements from Gary & Co. at the quarterly cc's, and you will hear subtle reminders of how WN needs to get in line payroll wise in order to go back to their roots of charging reasonable fares and making a profit. "F9 may also have some problems if UAL decides to bleed them out of DEN"? Are you kidding???? OK....so tell us why UAL hasn't yet decided to "bleed them" out of DEN ? F9 has only been operating out of DEN for a decade or more. Why didn't UAL decide to "bleed" them out years ago? All of a sudden this is the strategy? Did UAL management just now notice that F9 operates out of DEN? You seem to forget that the legacy's were at a distinct disadvantage on the expense side the last decade. The paradigm has changed and with that so will the predatory pricing from the legacy's will begin. F9 does not have alot of arz to lose and with the recent announcement of going it alone with regional service, this will put more initial pressure on their bottom line.

Tejas
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.....

:pimp:​
 
Lowecur, I'm pretty sure that everything you just posted in response to Tejas (with the exception of what you're smoking) was 1. based only on your personal intuition, which when combined with 35 cents will get you exactly one local payphone call, and 2. was completely wrong.

For all your self-proclaimed prowess at reading the airline industry, you sure don't seem to have grasped the fact that Southwest and the folks therein are exactly nothing like a legacy airline, and the resulting fact that one can learn exactly nothing of what will happen at Southwest by watching the past pratfalls of the legacies.
 
Man, where are all those nay sayers who were adamant in criticizing UAL's business plan because they could only focus on its inclusion of 50 dollar oil????? Doomed to fail, they implied. "One of these things don't look like the others........." they said. I guess there was more to the UAL exit plan than just one component.......fuel costs.
Click to expand...

Hey UAL driver, sounds like you are talking about G4G5. He's the same guy who said the PBGC would liquidate United! Here is some of his doom and gloom from Jan 2006...

Despite what some have published or believe to be true UAL has NO FUEL HEDGED FOR 2006

This is from UAL's latest 8k SEC filing dated Jan 17, 2006

"The company expects mainline fuel price for the first quarter to average $1.92 per gallon, and for the full-year to average $1.81 per gallon (including taxes). Currently the company has no hedges in place for 2006. For the full-year 2006, the company anticipates fuel expense for mainline and the company's regional affiliates' operations will increase by approximately $885 million over its previous assumption, which was based on a mainline fuel price of $1.48 per gallon (including taxes). The previous assumptions were more fully described in the company's Updated G6 financial projections contained in Exhibit 99.1 to the Form 8-K filed with the SEC on January 17, 2006. The company expects to be able to offset some, but not all, of this increase through higher revenues."

http://app.quotemedia.com/quotetools/showFiling.go?name=UAL%20CORP%20/DE/:%208-K,%20Sub-Doc%203,%20Page%201&link=http%3A//quotemedia.10kwizard.com/filing.xml%3Frepo%3Dtenk%26ipage%3D3916596%26doc%3 D3%26num%3D1

So if fuel goes up they plan on offsetting the costs by raising ticket prices not hedging fuel. You go Tilton.

Do these guys pay any attention to what is going on over at SWA? LUV does not have to raise ticket prices, they are making a profit already at current prices.
Click to expand...
 
Flycatcher99 said:
Lowecur, I'm pretty sure that everything you just posted in response to Tejas (with the exception of what you're smoking) was 1. based only on your personal intuition, which when combined with 35 cents will get you exactly one local payphone call, and 2. was completely wrong.

For all your self-proclaimed prowess at reading the airline industry, you sure don't seem to have grasped the fact that Southwest and the folks therein are exactly nothing like a legacy airline, and the resulting fact that one can learn exactly nothing of what will happen at Southwest by watching the past pratfalls of the legacies.
Click to expand...

Pay phones cost 50 cents. Can you believe it has come to that?
 
Lowcur you sir are an Idiot

You would be surprised to know what Joe thinks of Jetblue, your business plan and the prospect of running a hub out of JFK. That said Joe is not afraid of Jetblue.
 

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