Swa Pic Time

[RedDogC130]

I remember back in the day SWA allowed you to log PIC time when you where typed and hands on flying regardless of who is PIC per Part I. I am heading to another interview and do not think they are still allowing that kind of PIC logging. Anyone have any current info on their logging rules. The website does not say anything about it anymore. I am planning on calling to get more clarification but just wanted some pros here to put their 2 cents in. Fire away.

Thank you
RD

 

[Mud Eagle]

The website does not say anything about it anymore.

Here ya go:

http://www.southwest.com/careers/pilots.html

Southwest Airlines defines "Pilot in Command" for the purposes of application for employment as the Pilot ultimately responsible for the operation and safety of the aircraft during flight. The Pilot in Command should also be the Pilot who signed for the aircraft and who is the ultimate authority for the operation of that flight. For military personnel, Southwest Airlines will allow flight time logged as "Pilot In Command" (PIC) only if you are the Captain/Aircraft Commander, Evaluator, or Instructor Pilot. Primary time will only be considered PIC on a specific aircraft after an individual upgrades to Aircraft Commander in the appropriate aircraft. Time logged, as "Other Time" will not be considered. When converting taxi time a conversion factor of .3 or eighteen minutes, per leg/sortie should be used.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

I remember back in the day SWA allowed you to log PIC time when you where typed and hands on flying regardless of who is PIC per Part I. I am heading to another interview and do not think they are still allowing that kind of PIC logging. Anyone have any current info on their logging rules. The website does not say anything about it anymore. I am planning on calling to get more clarification but just wanted some pros here to put their 2 cents in. Fire away.

Thank you
RD

Per Part I

Pilot in command means the person who:
(1) Has final authority and responsibility for the operation and safety of the flight;
(2) Has been designated as pilot in command before or during the flight; and
(3) Holds the appropriate category, class, and type rating, if appropriate, for the conduct of the flight.


To my knowledge, the FAA has not allowed logging of PIC just because one was "hands on" and typed. In fact, there are at least a couple of cases where pilots were issued violations for logging time as PIC while typed but without 121 or 135 PIC proficiency check currency.

 

[RedDogC130]

I read the same thing on the webiste. I guess they are only going per Part I definition, which I like because it is cut and dry. I guess I knew the answer already but had the old way they did it still in my head. Thank you for setting me straight.

RD

 

[dudemize]

Other Time

I have a question regarding other time. In the C-5 we always fly with 3 pilots, which is usually divided evenly between the 3 (i.e. for a 9 hr flight will log 3 primary, 3 secondary, 3 other). Now if I am the A code it doesn't seem right that I can only log 6 of the 9 as PIC. Who was PIC for the other 3?

Anyone have any insight on this?

 

[Beaker]

I am heading to another interview...
RD

Congrats on the interview. Good luck. How long has it been since your last attempt?

 

[Fins Up]

I have a question regarding other time. In the C-5 we always fly with 3 pilots, which is usually divided evenly between the 3 (i.e. for a 9 hr flight will log 3 primary, 3 secondary, 3 other). Now if I am the A code it doesn't seem right that I can only log 6 of the 9 as PIC. Who was PIC for the other 3?

Anyone have any insight on this?

You have to choose one method and go with it. If you are going with "A-time" equals PIC, then you log all the time for the mission, even when you're back in the rack, as PIC time. If you're going with the "sole manipulator" method, you can't log time in the rack as anything.

I know a guy who got an interview (and I think hired) by SWA by doing the sole-manipulator of the controls method. Conversely I have had SWA guys tell me that's not the way to do it. Maybe my friend slid one by them.

Imporant question: Would you rather use questionable hours accounting, have the minimums now, submit your app, get questioned about it, disagreed with, and blow any chance of getting hired with them, OOOORRR wait until the have 1300 hours of legitamate A-time and not have to sweat it?

 

[RedDogC130]

A little over a year from the 1st attempt.

 

[dudemize]

Thanks for the reply Fins. I totally agree with you. If thats the policy then I will do it their way. It just kinda bothers me when I get home from a 30 hr mission but can only count 20, even though I satisfy all the rules for logging Part 1 PIC. Actually on my last trip we had 4 pilots and I wound up with about 20 hrs Other time on a 45 hr mission. I'm assuming on an airline trip with an IRO the Capt still logs PIC even if he is in the rack.

A couple of SWA guys in my squadron apparently did count the other time when they were PIC and explained it at the interview and got the job.

Not really an issue for me yet, as I only have about 800 PIC counting the other time.

 

[Fins Up]

No prob. Just to clarify, I can't quote their policy to you. I'm just passing on gouge and rumors that have been passed on to me. Good luck.

 

[Oh-ryan]

I have a question regarding other time. In the C-5 we always fly with 3 pilots, which is usually divided evenly between the 3 (i.e. for a 9 hr flight will log 3 primary, 3 secondary, 3 other). Now if I am the A code it doesn't seem right that I can only log 6 of the 9 as PIC. Who was PIC for the other 3?

Anyone have any insight on this?

Absolutely! Log all nine hours as PIC time... even if you in the rack. You are the head cheese and are making decisions that affect the safety of flight even if you are not wiggling the stick.

I did it and it wasn't a problem during my interview. I kept my military logbook as well as a excel spreadsheet that tracked all of my time. The total time in my military logbook is less than my civilian spreadsheet because my military book doesn't account for time that I logged as PIC when there were three bubba's aboard (i.e. the three hours I was not in the seat). I was asked about it during the interview and explained it just as I have here and it wasn't an issue. Good luck.

 

[RightTraffic]

I have a question regarding other time. In the C-5 we always fly with 3 pilots, which is usually divided evenly between the 3 (i.e. for a 9 hr flight will log 3 primary, 3 secondary, 3 other). Now if I am the A code it doesn't seem right that I can only log 6 of the 9 as PIC. Who was PIC for the other 3?

Anyone have any insight on this?

"A" TIME is the same as PIC time (EX-Navy Enlisted Aircrewman)

 

[dudemize]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Right Traffic I know that A code time is PIC but my question was related to the fact that SWA says pretty explicitly on its website that no Other Time will be considered. It seems from the responses I've gotten that the "no other time" policy is mostly for other situations (i.e. hanging out in the back when not the A-code).