Pilot Slots & Previous Experience

[KSACviator]

Hey Guys (and gals)-

For quite a few years now (initially under a different username) I came to FlightInfo and read threads-- daily. Never posted, just read. And I've been searching for the answer to a question I have but haven't been able to find good info on the topic, so I'm coming to you guys for help. If this has been covered in a previous thread, please feel free to post the link.

So here's the deal. I'm 20 years old, working on ratings up through Commercial/ Mulit/CFII. I'm a year and a half out from graduating ERAU's online program (I'm just now transferring to them from CSU Sacramento). Up until a few months ago, my master plan was typical -- build up the 1000 hours total/ 100 multi, and hit up the regionals for a job with hopes of making it the majors some years later.

However, I've always had the military in the back of my mind. Lately, I've become much more attracted to this option. One primary concern I have however, is actually ensuring that if I go in... I want to make sure I don't get screwed over.. and I want a dang pilot slot! I'm in great shape, perfect vision, good academics, etc. Bottom line -- once college is done with, I want to fly. And I'd be more proud than anything to do that while serving my country. BUT, I want to make sure if I did commit 4 - 10 years of my life to the services, I'd be flying. So I'm coming to you guys asking... what is the best way to do that?

So, for my questions. If I approach a branch with ratings up through CFII, Multi, plus around 400 hours (50-100 multi)... plus a college degree in Prof. Aeronautics from ERAU... can I get some sort of guaranteed pilot slot BEFORE signing on the dotted line? Would my training be expedited once signed up? Would I be more or possibly less attractive of a candidate with all these ratings?

Again, I really wouldn't mind going to the regionals and taking the ordinary civilian airline pilot route. However, I'd LOVE to serve my country and fly while doing it. Now I just need to know how to go about doing that.

Thanks in advance for your input.

 

[KSACviator]

Oh yeah... one more thing... I'm looking into ALL branches, but especially the Coast Guard, Air Force, and Navy. Preferably, I would want to be flying fixed wing aircraft.

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

You need to join an Air National Guard or Air Force Reserve unit. DO NOT talk to active duty recruiters or ROTC instructors. You need to locate the Guard or Reserve units and talk with their Chief Pilots about applying.

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

Do some searches. There is a current thread now "Guard/Reserve Questions" that will give you good info.

 

[Mud Eagle]

Two things:

#1 You aren't going to be able to find a deal out there that guarantees that you are going to fly before signing up. The closest to that is the Marines, who have a "guaranteed" slot, but it is contingent on a lot of things that you have no control over. The reality is that you join the military to be an officer first, and the pilot part is secondary. The way you are thinking of this whole military pilot gig is incorrect idealogically and pragmatically -- you've got it backward. When you say, "I want to make sure I don't get screwed over" by not getting a pilot slot...that's exactly my point.

#2 Your previous flying experience may help you get selected for a pilot training slot, but won't accelerate your training or even help you out very much when you're there -- unless you have a bunch of time flying instruments in a Pilatus PC-9 using DoD approach plates or a bunch of time flying formation in the Pilatus.

Becoming a military officer is a serious undertaking that needs to be considered very carefully -- not just done because it would be neat-o to fly some of them there fast jets.

 

[hooker23]

don't get discouraged

Don't let Mud Eagle discourage you too much although his advice is good in some respects. It sounds like you have some aviation experience and that will help you out over some guy who has never been in a cockpit before. Just having some air sense and anticpating what comes next is important. Don't let people talk with you about bad habits from prior flight training. You are young and probably teachable -- you can change. I'm a warrant officer in the army and it is one of the few jobs that lets you come close to "just flying." The military gets a lot out of each person and that includes additional duties that sometimes have nothing to do with flying; fire marshal, commo officer, fridge fund guy, FOD officer, arms room OIC,etc. I've been an IP for about two years now and I do nothing but fly, teach, and the subsequent paperwork. The army does have fixed wing aircraft but its rare for a pilot to go that route out of flight school. You normally fly helicopters for several years. Its possible to join a guard unit that has fixed wing aircraft and that determines what you will fly, in the guard only. AF Guard and Reserve are possibilities also as you know what you are being hired for and usually what aircraft. Remember that politics plays a role in models of guard aircraft and they do change from time to time. There are many people that join the military thinking that they will do their required time and then get out to a nice majors job. What usually happens is that after basic training, officer training, flight school and subsequent commitment, a lot of guys are close to, or over ten years of service. Many stick it out to retirement. Many pilots also enjoy the challenges that come from being a military officer. You may only want to fly now, but that could change over the years. Hope this helps. Oh yeah, the pay in the military is a LOT better than anything you will make flying regionals or cargo -- at least starting out. But you normally won't get shot at flying engine parts to michigan, etc.

 

[Mud Eagle]

I wasn't trying to discourage -- just answering his questions and offering an opinion about having your mind in the correct place before going after a commissioning program.

 

[SIG600]

The Navy/Marine option.

Speaking from experience here... if you're looking at the Navy you CAN (yes I said CAN) get guaranteed a pilot slot. When you apply for a commision, you apply under a program. Basically you apply for what job you want. SWO, Pilot, NFO, Supply, whatever. When I submitted my package I had very similar stats to you. CFII, Riddle Rat, etc. The only thing I put down was pilot. Left the other two choices blank. Now flying Hornets and don't have a single regret.

I believe the Marines are similar if applying for an Air Contract. You'll know prior to accepting if you're going in as a pilot or not.

All this being said, nothing guarantee's you getting fixed wing aviation. I know guys that never sat in a cockpit prior to joining that are flying fighter (it's how the program is designed). I also know guys that had 1000 hours that sucked through primary, selected helo's, and then attrited. I can tell you more about getting through the program but just know that your experience WILL help you get what you want, you just have to realize you know nothing about military aviation. You have the monkey skills, let them teach you HOW they want you to apply them.

Your commitment in the Navy is gonna be between 6-8 years depending on what community you go to. That's AFTER you get your wings, which from the day you check into OCS to winging can be 3 years. Is it a long time? Ya... but all those friends I had that said "oh but you've got a 10 year commitment"... know what their all doing? Still slinging the gear in an RJ, at their 3rd airline with no job security.

Like Mud said you're an officer first. In the Navy you'll also be a legal-o, maint. o, mess officer, div-o, or a host of other jobs... and pilot will be about third or forth on that list. This is all AFTER the training command. There your one and only job is to learn. Flight school was one of the greatest times of my life. You'll do things that a lot of people can only dream about, and you'll make some of the greatest friends of your life, and you'll lose a few to the business, and I wouldn't trade it for anything.

 

[KSACviator]

Hey guys-

Thanks for all the responses. I really appreciate them. I had never looked into the guard before, but will do so now. And I totally understand the "officer first" mentality. Well, I should say I understand what you mean -- to fully understand it I would actually have to be an officer.

I love helos... have only been in them a couple times.. but my only worry about flying them in the military is that I could have trouble finding a good job once I'm out (if I didn't decide to make it career).

Again, thanks for all the input.

 

[hdodo]

Ang Rules!!

Check out www.baseops.net and click on "aviation job listings". Many airlift and tanker units advertise when their UPT boards are going to be held and what is required to meet the board. I can tell you from personal experience that enlisting in the particular unit that you want to fly for is really going to help your chances of getting picked up for a pilot slot at that unit. I was commissioned with two guys who were picked up for pilot slots at units(happened to be prospective fighter guys) who had no previous enlisted or officer time in any branch. These guys might as well have enlisted at the units though because they both rushed the units long and hard (several years) before getting the nod. Best of luck to you in your endeavors.
hdodo

 

[TheSulaco]

Two things:

#1 You aren't going to be able to find a deal out there that guarantees that you are going to fly before signing up. quote]


This is actually inaccurate in regards to the Air Force. You just have to talk to an officer accessions recruiter and when you apply you just put down pilot. If you are selected the only part that is not a guarantee is if you are medically disqualified from Brooks or wash out of pilot training for that matter.

I was and have many friends who applied off the street for an Active Duty Pilot slot with the Air Force and got selected and when the time came to sign on the dotted line it was only for a pilot slot.

If you were to get selected for a pilot slot and were eliminated by one of the stupid tests at Brooks you would have a good chance of leaving the AF without any commitment.

As L'il J.Seinfeld said, I would look for a guard unit. I was selected for Active duty but ended up turning it down when my guard unit awarded me a slot. I personally believe the guard is the best way to go, and am very glad I did not go the active route.

 

[zippy]

Your commitment in the Navy is gonna be between 6-8 years depending on what community you go to. .

Good info from SIG-

Currently, the Navy commitment is 8yrs after winging for Pilots regardless of platform.

KSAC,

I don't agree with L'il J.Seinfeld's advice- The Guard/ Reserves are a great deal, but don't limit your options this early in the game without doing all of your research.

You might want look into the Navy's BDCP program and Marine Corps PLC programs since you haven't graduated yet. Navy OCS and Marine Corps OCC would also be options once you complete you degree if those don't work out.

Whatever you do though, make sure you talk to an Officer Recruiter if you give the active side a serious look.

http://www.airwarriors.com has a lot of info related to Naval Aviation (Navy, Marine Corps and Coast Guard) and Officer accession programs if your interested.

 

[KSACviator]

Hey guys,

Thanks again for the info. As for the guard, when applying are pilot slots generally full time? How does that work? Also-- which branch (including reserves) do you think will help the most in regards to prior experience & flight ratings?

Thanks again..

 

[hdodo]

Q: "As for the guard, when applying are pilot slots generally full time?"

A: No, not generally. However if a full scale invasion or conflict happens to be taking place when you graduate pilot training and aircraft specific training then you might find yourself on full time status for up to 2 years in support of the conflict. I've just recently been released from a 2 year activation and am easing into life as a traditional guardsman, which for my unit entails roughly 6 to 9 days a month to stay proficient. Each units mission will dictate how much time you need to spend there to stay current/proficient.

Q:"How does that work? Also-- which branch (including reserves) do you think will help the most in regards to prior experience & flight ratings?"

A:Not sure what you mean by "help the most", but your experience won't hurt your chances of performing well in military flight training. Working hard, studying the airplanes and profiles, and being a team player all helped this guy through the unforgettable year that was Joint Specialized Undergraduate Pilot Training (JSUPT). Another tidbit of knowledge that may be helpful to all who are about to begin UPT: DO NOT broadcast to your peers and instructors that you have thousands of hours in a cessna/piper. I know it's going to be hard not to talk about yourselves, but your IP's won't give 2 $hips about it.

Thanks again..[/quote]
You are quite welcome!

 

[Scrapdog]

Q: "As for the guard, when applying are pilot slots generally full time?"

A: No, not generally. However if a full scale invasion or conflict happens to be taking place when you graduate pilot training and aircraft specific training then you might find yourself on full time status for up to 2 years in support of the conflict. I've just recently been released from a 2 year activation and am easing into life as a traditional guardsman, which for my unit entails roughly 6 to 9 days a month to stay proficient. Each units mission will dictate how much time you need to spend there to stay current/proficient.

Q:"How does that work? Also-- which branch (including reserves) do you think will help the most in regards to prior experience & flight ratings?"

A:Not sure what you mean by "help the most", but your experience won't hurt your chances of performing well in military flight training. Working hard, studying the airplanes and profiles, and being a team player all helped this guy through the unforgettable year that was Joint Specialized Undergraduate Pilot Training (JSUPT). Another tidbit of knowledge that may be helpful to all who are about to begin UPT: DO NOT broadcast to your peers and instructors that you have thousands of hours in a cessna/piper. I know it's going to be hard not to talk about yourselves, but your IP's won't give 2 $hips about it.

Thanks again..

You are quite welcome![/quote]

Prior experience doesn't really matter a bit in pilot training aside from a little more airmanship during your initial few months in the primary jet (either the T-6 or T-37). I went into UPT at Sheppard with my Multiengine Instrument with about 400 hours of civilian time and it helped somewhat through the instrument phase. After that, almost everyone is equal - and you're going to have to learn the military way of flying which will be just as new to you as a guy with 5 hours of prior experience.

Once you're in your advanced trainer, i.e. T-38's...prior experience makes no difference whatsoever...

 

[Gorilla]

Once you're in your advanced trainer, i.e. T-38's...prior experience makes no difference whatsoever...

Yup, if you are fortunate enough to fly the mighty Talon, almost 50(!!) years old and still one of the prettiest jets ever to fly, it becomes the great equalizer. Picture a telephone pole on the ground. Climb on front, straddle it, and launch. The view, roll rate and lift all feel about like that.

Still the fastest rolling AC ever made, something like 720 degrees/sec. Roll too fast and it'll couple and ball up midair.

Strengths: Great formation platform due to responsive engines and great vis.
Weaknesses: Flies like a telephone pole!

Is a rudder hard-over still on the T-38's list of catastrophic emergencies? We lost a good guy at Holloman due to a hard-over.

 

[TheSulaco]

If memory serves me correctly, the A-4 had the fastest roll rate.

 

[Gorilla]

If memory serves me correctly, the A-4 had the fastest roll rate.

Fight's on!! I'm 98% sure the T-38 rules in this category. What is the roll rate of the A-4?

oops, sorry for hijacking this thread...

 

[bagasticks]

Yeah the A-4 is 720 per second too. .

 

[Mud Eagle]

Both the T-38 and A-4 claim 720 degrees per second.

I've never been able to make the '38 do two rolls in a second, personally.