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CAL B scale
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Jonny Sacko
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Truckdriver
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The pay at CAL just plain stinks. When all the other legacies start hiring, CAL will once again become the legacy that nobody wants to work for unless you want to live in one of their hubs, which is unlikely. All other legacies have starting pay close to $40 and include health insurance. Even Wal-Mart and McDonalds give their employees health insurance when the start working. CAL is just popular now because it is the only legacy hiring. Next year when UAL and DAL start hiring lots of guys, CAL will quickly go to the bottom of the list as far as places to work.
Truckdriver
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I work at XJT and your right, they haven't called me. Do you think it would help me to get a call if I filled out the app? I'm also leaving XJT in a couple of weeks for a place that pays better than CAL, has insurance for newhires, and has bases that are actually nice to live in. I never filled out the CAL app because I never wanted to work there. Lots of other XJT guys feel the same way.
Ben Franklin
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Curious... how much net income is left over for these employees after they pay for a comparable (to CAL) insurance plan?
Sincerely,
B. Franklin
Ben Franklin
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Actually CAL pays more than UAL, DL, and NW,and very close to AA. Everyone except AA has PBS, and UAL has a slightly better retirement plan. The six months without insurance sucks but you know that going in. Yeah Southwest gives you health insurance but what I understand you only have one option and that is United Health Care, which I had a very bad expirience with. At CAL you have a lot of options to choose from. Every airline has its share of problems but to say that CAL will quickly become the legacy that no one wants to be at is a huge understatement.
Comapre payrates below:
http://www.airlinepilotcentral.info/airlines/legacy.html
FlyBoeingJets
YES, that's NICE
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That's what he's talking about. It sucks no less whether or not you know about it "going in". So he isn't. Glad to see you guys are in agreement.
When the new contracts were done no one really cared about 1st-3rd year pay because dudes where furloughed and would be coming back on year 4 pay or higher.
Now the diabolical mangement (or Senior Union?) plan is finally getting noticed.
The race to the bottom (for the bottom guys and gals) continues. Don't forget age 60 is going away because the senior guys want even more.
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Truckdriver
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Curious... how much net income is left over for these employees after they pay for a comparable (to CAL) insurance plan?
Sincerely,
B. Franklin
Don't know, but at 7.50/hr they would make about 1500 per month. Cal newhire pay is right around 2200 per month. Take out around 500 per month for family health insurance and you make about 200 per month more at CAL. I know it gets better, but some of us don't want to "pay dues" to CAL. I would rather work for a place that values you instead of thinking you owe them something for giving you the chance to work for welfare wages for a year.
Truckdriver
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No, not yet.
Truckdriver
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I see CAL paying $30 while UAL is at $32, DAL $48, AMR $35, and NW $30. CAL doesn't pay better than any legacy. SWA and JBLU are both around $51 first year with benefits. If you stayed on a narrowbody at a legacy for your entire career, you would make more going to SWA or JBLU. Not that you would stay on a narrowbody, but just comparing career earnings. I'm not bashing them, I'm just saying that some of us don't really want to work for those wages just to work for a "legacy". You do have to admit, that is just isn't right that a company the size of CAL doesn't provide health insurance to pilots for six months. It's ridiculous.
Truckdriver
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I'll agree with you there. I guess I shouldn't have made such a big statement. CAL is a good company, but when you are faced with making over $40/hr with benefits vs. $29/hr with no benefits, lots of guys and gals will move CAL down the list on places to work. CAL is only at the top of everyone's list now because they are the only legacy hiring. Get all the rest in the mix, and CAL won't be so great in my opinion.
Palomino
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ok. and your point? you don't work at CAL and chose to seek other opportunities. things will improve at Continental. i plan to be a part of that change. i've made some sacrifices in order to take a position with a growing company during a large hiring wave. short term thinking doesn't get you very far in this business. i'm thinking long term and hopefully things pan out well for me. it's my decision and i'll be able to handle whatever comes down the road.
why don't you tell us where you've decided to go after XJT?
why don't you tell us where you've decided to go after XJT?
Jonny Sacko
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Ben Franklin
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I just looked at my 16th paycheck. You are pretty far off in your calculations.
I have worked 37 hours since 8/1. If the walmart newhire worked 37 hours in the last two months, they would gross about $320.00. How did I only make $200 more than a Wal-mart employee last month?
get a clue.
Sincerely,
B. Franklin
mynameisjim
Don't try this at home
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Ben Franklin
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as much time as the walmart employee spent in the welfare line!
Sincerely,
B. Franklin
Patriot328
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You really need to look beyond first year pay. There's more to a payscale than starting pay. It goes back and forth some, but CAL is equal or better to AMR, UAL, and DAL (depending on longevity and seat, some are better than CAL and CAL is better than some). To say that you'll make more at JB staying on a 320 vs flying a NB position (you didn't even mention LNB v SNB at CAL) is absolutely laughable. SWA is the only airline that has a sizable pay difference for the 737 for the airlines mentioned.
All that being said, you're last sentence regarding no insurance for first six months (and the low pay first year) is spot on. It is ridiculous for CAL to have that policy.
nimtz
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Enjoy your blue juice then. I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole right now. Three years ago is a different story, but barring serious industry upheveal CAL's seniority movement will smoke JB's over the next five years.
Probationary pay stinks just about everywhere depending how you look at it. It is the nature of the beast in this business. You know what you are getting into and few have the luxury of picking and chosing a real airline job in this environment.
Enjoy that 190 capt pay if that is what you are gunning for. Second year 777 fo makes about the same and works a heck of alot less. Rip the bases all you'd like, but I'm pretty sure JB's biggest base shares the same metro area with CAL. I happen to like living 10 minutes from NYC and 15 minutes from the parking lot at EWR.
Jonny Sacko
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Pat Fabin
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FYI, our starting pay (Delta) is $58/hr...the airlinepilotcentral info is incorrect...I guess they never lowered 1st year pay. (source: DALPA)
Hopefully we get some guys on it next year!
PS..CAL sux.
On a more serious note, CAL has historically been at or near the bottom of the majors as far as pay and workrules, they are only where they are at now because the rest of the big players have fallen so much. Hopefully we can all make some good advances in the coming years.
Hopefully we get some guys on it next year!
PS..CAL sux.
On a more serious note, CAL has historically been at or near the bottom of the majors as far as pay and workrules, they are only where they are at now because the rest of the big players have fallen so much. Hopefully we can all make some good advances in the coming years.
Bethune said after 9/11 (and before the legacies took their pay cuts) that CAL pilots make as much or more than anyone else. He actually could say this, and it be true, because although CAL pilots were paid anywhere from 5% to 40% less per hour than other legacy carriers, they were flying 85 to 100 hard hours (not rig time). Voila--the monthly pay check is the same. Too bad they were flying 95 hours vice, what was it, the 55 UAL was paying for its pilots to not come to work.
And this 95 hours was not only flown willingly, but welcomed by many of the pilots. Heck, when CAL furloughed about 200 pilots more than they needed to, someone had to make up the flying time and some considered themselves indeed "in the money" bragging openly in ops how they're picking up open time from reserves, building up their paychecks. Strange, some pilot groups prohibit open time pickup during a furlough and even have it in the contract to build lines of lower time, not zoom them up to FAA max.
If there is ever a merger, no matter who it is with, it is going to be a shock to the other pilot group how "productive" CAL is. CAL has been on a B-Scale since the early 90s and eventually dragged everyone else down there as well.
And this 95 hours was not only flown willingly, but welcomed by many of the pilots. Heck, when CAL furloughed about 200 pilots more than they needed to, someone had to make up the flying time and some considered themselves indeed "in the money" bragging openly in ops how they're picking up open time from reserves, building up their paychecks. Strange, some pilot groups prohibit open time pickup during a furlough and even have it in the contract to build lines of lower time, not zoom them up to FAA max.
If there is ever a merger, no matter who it is with, it is going to be a shock to the other pilot group how "productive" CAL is. CAL has been on a B-Scale since the early 90s and eventually dragged everyone else down there as well.
Whats upgrade and retirements and future aircraft orders look like where you are heading? Not to mention CAL upgrade time on the 737 is running at about 2 years...pretty big pay raise there my friend......anyway good luck to you on your future.....I spent 9 years at XJT and had a great time..no regrets at all going to CAL
Truckdriver
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And if you are married and have at least one kid you can get in that same welfare line if you work at CAL. Your min guarantee check compared to a check for a full-time employee at Wal-Mart will only be a couple hundred bucks more. Again, not bashing CAL just saying that when the other legacies start hiring, CAL will once again become low on the list of legacies to work for due to the low pay and no benefits.
Truckdriver
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I thought upgrades went to 2001 hires. That is a little closer to 5 years not 2.
Palomino
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yeah right. i ask again: what lovely outfit are you going to work for after XJT? maybe we can 'not bash' your new employer.
pkober
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Factor in the furlough from 2001 - 2005. During furloughs airlines don't hire.
Where did you get that $500/mt insurance for a family of four? I pay less than $150/mt.
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