Delta DOS

[IFLYASA]

For the Delta pilots, after taking the massive paycuts to protect the airline, when do you expect to be getting some of that back? When is your next annual Date of Sigining, or was that thrown out as well? Is there an annual percentage raise based on the current contract? I understand if Delta makes "X" amount of proft for so many quarters, you should receive more compensation. Any truth to this?

With Delta exiting Bankruptcy next year and the falling prices of energy, I think all the majors should give back some of these paycuts.

 

[FDJ2]

For the Delta pilots, after taking the massive paycuts to protect the airline, when do you expect to be getting some of that back? When is your next annual Date of Sigining, or was that thrown out as well? Is there an annual percentage raise based on the current contract? I understand if Delta makes "X" amount of proft for so many quarters, you should receive more compensation. Any truth to this?

With Delta exiting Bankruptcy next year and the falling prices of energy, I think all the majors should give back some of these paycuts.

If memory serves me well, the first modest pay bump will be this January, 1.5%. After that it wil increase on January 2008 and 2009 between 1%-6% depending on performance. The contract is only 3.5 years in duration and becomes amendable Jenuary 1, 2010.

 

[IFLYASA]

If memory serves me well, the first modest pay bump will be this January, 1.5%. After that it wil increase on January 2008 and 2009 between 1%-6% depending on performance. The contract is only 3.5 years in duration and becomes amendable Jenuary 1, 2010.

FDJ2

Thanks for the info. So does this mean the current contract started 2006, which the 3.5 years would make it 2010 to be amendable? Looking at the compensation for 3+ year contracts, would this be a diagonal pay increase of 1.5%, meaning, going from year 1 to year 2, or just a 1.5% across the board raise, not counting the longevity raise?

Just calculating payscales in hopes Delta does start hiring one day.

 

[FDJ2]

FDJ2

Thanks for the info. So does this mean the current contract started 2006, which the 3.5 years would make it 2010 to be amendable? Looking at the compensation for 3+ year contracts, would this be a diagonal pay increase of 1.5%, meaning, going from year 1 to year 2, or just a 1.5% across the board raise, not counting the longevity raise?

Just calculating payscales in hopes Delta does start hiring one day.

2010 is the amendable date, the pay increase is across the board each year.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Looks to me like they've still got the best legacy contract (scope aside.) No food-stamp pay the first year. Year 2 and 3 are above average, too. Int'l override (who still has that?) Good reserve rules (long call.) No wait for benefits.

I'll apply the day they open their window.

 

[warbirdfinder]

Gogglespisano wrote:Looks to me like they've still got the best legacy contract (scope aside.) No food-stamp pay the first year. Year 2 and 3 are above average, too. Int'l override (who still has that?) Good reserve rules (long call.) No wait for benefits.

Hell of a contract, except for those 5800 pilots who lost their retirement. You say the PBGC will pay a minimum of $29,000/year? Guess again!! 1400 pilots will receive "0" from them. I only lost 1.6 million over a 25 year period. Don't you just love those guys at DALPA? They would screw their own grandmother if they had a chance and have as much integrity a DAL management. And now they want to double our medical benefits premium because it would not look good to the rest of the retired people who have to pay more.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Man I hate to hear that. I wish we could get 1 little law changed, and the bashing of Retiree's and current employees would NEVER need to bash each other.

Put Employee Pay/Pension above shareholder payout in bankruptcy.


That would end everything. The company would fail and payoff employees before ripping them off for the shareholders.

I know, water under the bridge, but if someone had a friend, or uncle Guido, maybe we could get that put in. I don't know, but a truly awful situation.

 

[warbirdfinder]

Fellow Pilots:
Here is something that could help save a pension plan. DALPA has not told you about it because they don't care about the plan or retired pilots. Thank you for taking the time to read this.

v1.06
Subject: Petition to Save Our Pensions
Delta Air Lines has terminated its Pilot Pension Plan.

We ask you assistance in signing the following petition to Congress in an effort to save the pensions of all Delta Air Lines employees including pilots. Although the language is technical, we are just trying to get a date correction to the lump sum provision that Delta Air Lines has said prevents them from continuing the pilot pension plan. Forward this email to all your family and friends to allow them to add their name to the list. The list will be accumulated, sorted by state, and sent/and or hand delivered to members of Congress. The deadline for signing the petition is November 5, 2006. If you can personally deliver the petition to your Congressman or Senators email [email protected]. Please follow this link "Save Our Delta Pension Petition Form" to a web page that will allow you to add your name to the list. To add a spouse, return to the form and fill in again. To see the current List of Names on the Petition click here. The petition will be checked for bogus or duplicate entries.
This is no substitute for individually contacting your representatives and please continue to do so.

Thank you for your efforts.
Wendell Lewis, Will Buergey, Chuck Rodema

V1.06

TO OUR ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES:
We the undersigned respectfully request your assistance in saving the pensions of all Delta employees, including pilots.

On August 4, 2006, Delta Air Lines petitioned the Bankruptcy Court for a Distress Termination of the Pilots Pension Plan. In a one hundred thirty page filing to the court, ninety nine pages are devoted to affidavits from company officials (Bastain, Coleman, McDaniel, and Watson) stating that the plan had to be terminated because of the resumption of lump sum payouts.

Recently passed Pension Reform legislation, HR 4, Public Law 109-280, contains language that requires Delta Air Lines to possibly resume lump sum payments from the Pilot Pension Plan. Section 103, "BENEFIT LIMITATIONS UNDER SINGLE-EMPLOYER PLANS." Per the Bill, the "EFFECTIVE DATES" of Sec 103 (c) (1), which is entitled "IN GENERAL. --" of the Amendments is for "plan years beginning after 31 December, 2007." Further, there is a "COLLECTIVE BARGAINING EXCEPTION. --" in Section 103 (c) (2) that says for CBAs reached prior to 1 January 2008, the section shall not apply until the termination date of the CBA, or 1/1/2010 if later.

A technical correction to the bill that would prohibit lump sum distributions immediately could possibly enable Delta Air Lines to meet their pension obligations. I urge you to join the other members of Congress to make a “Technical Correction” to the Pension Reform Bill and remove this discriminatory exception, or to add the phrase "Except for the Plans of companies that have declared bankruptcy," to the beginning of Section 103 (c) (1) and Section 103 (c) (2), thus making the Lump Sum suspension available immediately. Any suitable language to prevent resumption of lump sum payouts for under funded plans could save the pensions of thousands of Delta pilots.


Your assistance in correcting this provision is essential to the lives of many of your constituents and fellow Americans. Every effort should be made to insure that Delta Air Lines lives up to their moral and contractual obligations to all employees as intended by Congress and the President.

On behalf of all Delta pilots, retirees, their families and friends, thank you for your efforts.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

warbird,

Not saying you did, but alot of your generation took the lump sum and left the current members holding the bag. How about you organize the lumpsumers and make a deal with dalpa/dal/pbgc/congress and put the money back into the plan with the intent of bringing up the balance to a reasonable level to freeze. They freeze it, you get a secured monthly stream, the current pilots get a frozen benefit closer to what they have earned and everyone wins/or loses less, nobody except mgmt has won the last 6 yrs.

 

[warbirdfinder]

All lump sums were rolled over to individual IRA's. There is no provision to return IRA funds once they are deposited. Funds can be removed days with no penalty if replaced within 60 days. Over 60 days and you will pay income taxes on the amount withdrawn. I seriously doubt that people will want to give back their lump sum, only to be taxed at 30-45%, a double loss. Delta had no intention whatsoever to keep the pilots plan, they did everything they could to hasten the termination, including half truths and outright deceit. It was not due to the pilots leaving, it was Deltas underfunding. They could have stopped the resignations by guaranteeing the retirement, similar to what they did earlier for 35 of their executives. To return IRA funds once taken would require a massive change in ERISA, IRA, PBGC, etc rules. The lump sums are gone with the termination. If the law were "fine tuned" and allow for negotiation to eliminate the lump sum and go back to pre 1994 annuities retirement plan, then the fund would be in liquidity and the termination could be reversed. What you also have to remember is that once you retire ALPA considers you a "nonperson" worthy of no consideration. Even though they have the ability to assist in termination of the retirement plan and to modify our benefits, ALPA has no time for formers members who supported and paid dues for all those years, once you pay no dues, you are history. Nice organization, huh?

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

All lump sums were rolled over to individual IRA's. There is no provision to return IRA funds once they are deposited. Funds can be removed days with no penalty if replaced within 60 days. Over 60 days and you will pay income taxes on the amount withdrawn. I seriously doubt that people will want to give back their lump sum, only to be taxed at 30-45%, a double loss. Delta had no intention whatsoever to keep the pilots plan, they did everything they could to hasten the termination, including half truths and outright deceit. It was not due to the pilots leaving, it was Deltas underfunding. They could have stopped the resignations by guaranteeing the retirement, similar to what they did earlier for 35 of their executives. To return IRA funds once taken would require a massive change in ERISA, IRA, PBGC, etc rules. The lump sums are gone with the termination. If the law were "fine tuned" and allow for negotiation to eliminate the lump sum and go back to pre 1994 annuities retirement plan, then the fund would be in liquidity and the termination could be reversed. What you also have to remember is that once you retire ALPA considers you a "nonperson" worthy of no consideration. Even though they have the ability to assist in termination of the retirement plan and to modify our benefits, ALPA has no time for formers members who supported and paid dues for all those years, once you pay no dues, you are history. Nice organization, huh?

Its really comical how a retired guy who pulled up his ladder (or could have a lot earlier) HIJACKS A THREAD about future hiring and then complains that he has no say in the current BK-induced contract. It was partly due to the greed of your generation that led us into this mess.......where were you warbird during C2K?? Complaining about the organization, or burning down the house and padding your FAE?!?!?! Which was it?? I didn't see you guys jump to my defense when I spent 3 1/2 years on the street AS A FURLOUGHED FORMER DUES PAYING MEMBER while you greenslipped your way into retirement.

You guys and your lawsuits are the bloated, inverse of the RJ defense coalition.........and don't even tell me about how you BUILT Delta......REGULATION built Delta.....

Enjoy your S3b passes and let who's left at Delta decide OUR futures without your interference.......keep suing and maybe your lawyers will take what's left of your retirement.

How's that age 65 thing coming along???

 

[warbirdfinder]

Personally, I left only 3 months early. As for hijacking a future hiring thread, I answered comments on the contract and BK.
Suppose for a moment that no pilots flew green slips and 50 or 60 pilots were recalled, those guys gave up salary and FAE to get them back. Now what are those 50 -60 pilots going to do for those pilots who gave up that money? Pay them back? Give them free movie tickets? Pay for their health benefits? Don't make me laugh. Furlough is the pitts, I have been there, but where to you get the idea that pilots have to work under a substandard contract just to keep people from being furloughed? Furlough is a business decision made by management. The limitation of 75 hours/month because DAL had pilots on furlough, cost me and many other pilots over $175,000.00 and a good chuck of retirement money. Are the furloughed guys that return going to pay me or the other pilots back for our sacrifices?
And the S3B passes, what a joke, try getting on an airplane these days with that class of pass.
As for the age 65, there is an outside chance it will pass, though it will not affect me one way or another. As for as using "safety" to shoot it down, ALPA tried for years after it was implemented to have it rescinded on the grounds that safety had nothing to do with the age 60 rule. As time went on, the members changed their stance.
I assume you spent 3 or 4 years as a dues paying member, I paid dues for 39 years.
I am really curious how "my" generation got DAL into this mess, care to explain?
As a matter of fact "deregulation" built Delta and good management. It started downhill after Grinstein started sticking his fingers in the pie.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Personally, I left only 3 months early. As for hijacking a future hiring thread, I answered comments on the contract and BK.
Suppose for a moment that no pilots flew green slips and 50 or 60 pilots were recalled, those guys gave up salary and FAE to get them back. Now what are those 50 -60 pilots going to do for those pilots who gave up that money? Pay them back? Give them free movie tickets? Pay for their health benefits? Don't make me laugh. Furlough is the pitts, I have been there, but where to you get the idea that pilots have to work under a substandard contract just to keep people from being furloughed? Furlough is a business decision made by management. The limitation of 75 hours/month because DAL had pilots on furlough, cost me and many other pilots over $175,000.00 and a good chuck of retirement money. Are the furloughed guys that return going to pay me or the other pilots back for our sacrifices?
And the S3B passes, what a joke, try getting on an airplane these days with that class of pass.
As for the age 65, there is an outside chance it will pass, though it will not affect me one way or another. As for as using "safety" to shoot it down, ALPA tried for years after it was implemented to have it rescinded on the grounds that safety had nothing to do with the age 60 rule. As time went on, the members changed their stance.
I assume you spent 3 or 4 years as a dues paying member, I paid dues for 39 years.
I am really curious how "my" generation got DAL into this mess, care to explain?
As a matter of fact "deregulation" built Delta and good management. It started downhill after Grinstein started sticking his fingers in the pie.

I agree with you about Grinstein......nothing you or I could control.....

I agree S3b passes DO suck....had em on furlough.....watched many a new-hire Comair guy get on before me........

I have paid dues to ALPA for over 14 years, Delta isn't my first ALPA rodeo.

You made your decision about the greenslips ("gotta __________ to pay for")and now you feel like you need to justify it here on this thread. Take all of your DP2, DP3 , R2D2 etc. crap to another board or post......it's really getting old.......

In your same tone........Should I take another paycut or give up MORE work rules so you can live comfortably now as a civilian and restore all of your benefits???? It is a 2 way street sir, get into your lane..........

 

[FlyingSig]

The limitation of 75 hours/month because DAL had pilots on furlough, cost me and many other pilots over $175,000.00 and a good chuck of retirement money. Are the furloughed guys that return going to pay me or the other pilots back for our sacrifices?

Nope. And it's pretty pompuss of you to think that way as well.

I gave up $310K in straight salary under C2K wages during my furlough, $18000 in MPPP money, and about $30K in 401K money. Got penalized under the DC matrix and will never get a dime from the PBGC (are you one of the 1300 that zero'd out or are you just bitching because your check went down?) That sacrafice was made to save the company money so that you didn't have to give more during that time frame.

You're welcome.

 

[warbirdfinder]

Not pompous at all.

I get "ZERO" from the PBGC/DAL and my medical premiums are going to $900.00/month.

What you gave up means nothing to me, your sacrifices were to save your ass, not mine!

 

[WorldOnTime]

Not pompous at all.

I get "ZERO" from the PBGC/DAL and my medical premiums are going to $900.00/month.

What you gave up means nothing to me, your sacrifices were to save your ass, not mine!

I am just going out on a limb here, but my guess is that you aren't horribly missed over there. Except by yourself....

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Not pompous at all.

I get "ZERO" from the PBGC/DAL and my medical premiums are going to $900.00/month.

What you gave up means nothing to me, your sacrifices were to save your ass, not mine!

Well, I guess Warbird you aren't too good at poker.......he exposed his TRUE colors (I GOT MINE, SUCKAS!!!).......now go golfing or something and sleep well knowing we don't miss ya........

Remember it was YOU Warbird who hijacked an innocent thread from the future Delta pilots asking about when hiring was to start and what to expect.........you want a debate?? Take it to your DP3 forum!!!

 

[VeeOne]

Does anybody know roughly how many slots will need to be filled based on attrition? Just another ASA'er with a bit of curiosity....

 

[FlyingSig]

Not pompous at all.

I get "ZERO" from the PBGC/DAL and my medical premiums are going to $900.00/month.

In other words your lump was so large it offset the remaining annuity. Cry me a river. Since you only left 3 months early that means you're not subject to any early withdrawl penalties. Boo hoo.

What you gave up means nothing to me

And that sir, speaks volumes about your character.

 

[warbirdfinder]

What a bunch of ****************************************!!

 

[Tomct]

What a bunch of ****************************************!!

Sorry about all your troubles, but if you got your "Lump Sum" like some of the others.....you should be just fine! Now if you wasted it....no one's fault but your own!!

 

[dtfl]

Nope. And it's pretty pompuss of you to think that way as well.

I gave up $310K in straight salary under C2K wages during my furlough, $18000 in MPPP money, and about $30K in 401K money. Got penalized under the DC matrix and will never get a dime from the PBGC (are you one of the 1300 that zero'd out or are you just bitching because your check went down?) That sacrafice was made to save the company money so that you didn't have to give more during that time frame.

You're welcome.

From a furloughed guy- thanks. Seriously.
I TOTALLY understand you guys need to worry about your future and family...but scheduling loooooved the green slippers.....