You guys look sharp.....

[JoeMerchant]

That "doofus" was a Spirit First Officer who came out on his day off to show his support. He deserves our respect and gratitude, as do the other Spirit and Mesaba pilots that took their own time to come down and offer their support for our fight.

To all the Pinnacle, Spirit, and Mesaba pilots that came, thank you very much. This LEC leadership couldn't be more proud of this pilot group.

Did any NWA mainline pilots come out beside DW?

 

[PCL_128]

Did any NWA mainline pilots come out beside DW?

Council 20 Chairman Ray Miller and Vice Chairman Bill Bartles tried to make it in, but like many of our pilots, they weren't able to get here in time because of the weather. We would have had well over 100 pilots in attendance, but the weather caused so many cancellations and delays that many guys couldn't make it. Captain Woerth just barely made it in time after his flight out of DC was delayed for hours.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

That "doofus" was a Spirit First Officer who came out on his day off to show his support. He deserves our respect and gratitude, as do the other Spirit and Mesaba pilots that took their own time to come down and offer their support for our fight.

Does that include the Pinnacle pilots that wear the company approved leather jacket?

:beer:

 

[PCL_128]

Does that include the Pinnacle pilots that wear the company approved leather jacket?

Hey, if you want to look like a fighter-pilot wannabe, then have at it.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So the minority can be sacrificed for the greater good? Do you really expect the minority to then turn around and support the majority?

So after we spend time and energy satisfying your minority group, what about the next minority group?

























and the next...




















and the next group that cries foul...................





















and the next......................




Joe- the problem is you have not proven how to install a ramp next to the steps. All you want to do is make ramps for your wheelchairs by removing all the steps. Until you can show how to do both you will continue to be ineffectual.


Here we are trying to point out how the Pinnacle Pilots have done something good and you got to spin it to the RJDC...... Why can't you simply say... Good job PCL....

I'm beginning to think you are an attention whore. During the next PCL picket why don't you show up with RJDC propganda and make it all about you....

No scratch that idea... I think PCL128 would cap your knees Teamster style...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Hey, if you want to look like a fighter-pilot wannabe, then have at it.

More like a 1920's Air Mail pilot in an open cockpit bi-plane. If you've flown an open cockpit bi-plane you know what I mean..

Or


Like a 1940's round motor Air Line Pilot flying for the Air Transport Command or the Naval Air Transport Service. If you've flown round motors you know what I mean......


Lot's of leather in civilian Air Line Pilot history!

 

[pylut]

good job and good luck to the Pinnacle folks. I hope their efforts help effect a positive change.

Too bad that worthless made it there at all, his presence anywhere merely cheapens the event.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Rez: Good point, it is our heritage. It is too bad the up and coming pilots don't REALLY know what they're getting into. This is something we the pilots need to teach them on a daily basis. I am very happy that our ALPA passes out the books, "Flying the Line" and "Flying the Line II." I think everyone should read these and find out what has happend in our past. Just remember, ALPA isn't Teamsters. It's a professional organization commited to the furthering of our profession. I wouldn't even lump it into a union classification.

 

[BOOMER2]

Boomer2: Poverty isn't the issue. It's about being paid a just wage for what work we do. Four day trips away from family, idle time, fatigue, sickness, threat of terrorists, education that we've paid for and endured, hand-eye coordination, ability not to crap one's pants or get motion sickness, fearlessness of heights, depth perception, eating horrible food and/or malnurishment, stress of industry and all factors associated with it, shall I go on?

There, put that in your research papers, sir/maam....

Good and viable points. This the reason I threw part of the research out here. While pay is one aspect, there are many others to consider.

I believe we tend to fixate on first year pay, but we need to consider what our overall motivation/long-term goals are in aviation. I have spent several years in the USAF, but the years I have spent were not determined by the pay. I guess it's what we make of it, however, there is nothing wrong with wanting to improve our environment/pay/schedule/etc.

Thanks for your input.

 

[flyer172r]

More like a 1920's Air Mail pilot in an open cockpit bi-plane. If you've flown an open cockpit bi-plane you know what I mean..

Or


Like a 1940's round motor Air Line Pilot flying for the Air Transport Command or the Naval Air Transport Service. If you've flown round motors you know what I mean......


Lot's of leather in civilian Air Line Pilot history!

Yes but unfortunately very few people care about history these days, so they only care about looking like a fighter pilot.

 

[MACH-TUCK]

Thanks to all the pilots who showed up in DTW, You really did look good.... Lets hope uncle PT was watching!!

 

[PilotOnTheRise]

1) I agree. Something does need to be done to change the whole issue of 'starting over'. It sucks for a captain to get furloughed, and have to start out at the bottom, right there with the freshly mented JetU graduate, with 300TT.

2) No, I cannot. Personally, I plan to fly 135 freight, for someone like RamAir, or FlightExpress, before getting on with a regional. Even though the 135 minimums exceed many of the current minimums of the regionals, I don't want to get hired by a regional with 600TT. I want to have quality flight time, and multi engine time. I want to trust that if every computer on that RJ fails, and the captain passes out over in the left seat, I can fly and land the airplane in the worst of conditions. To be completely honest with you; if that did happen, there are some FOs I don't trust could do it. I think requirements need to be made much strict, when it comes to becoming a pilot.

3) I don't have much knowledge about the whole ALPA thing, and all of those issues, but I fail to see as how ALPA has done a single thing for the airlines over the past few years.

I agree, but let's look at some of the problems we face in trying to raise the pay for what we do.

1. As you pointed out, the top pay at a regional, and most of the pay at a mainline puts you in the top 10% of W2 earners. Combine that with the ability to have a 3 day work week and it isn't really that bad of a job. That is a lot to give up if you choose to "draw a line in the sand" and it causes you to have to start over again at the bottom somewhere else. This causes at least 50% of any pilot group to do whatever it takes to save the company even if it lowers the bar. The only solution to this dilemma is some form of national seniority, or at least brand seniority, combined with minimum contract standards.

2. Very low entrance requirements. Can you think of any other job with the same level of responsibility that can be achieved so easily? You can go from 0 time to a 121 FO in less than a year at some of the puppy farms. The solution to this problem is higher 121 requirements. The AMA and ABA would never allow doctors or lawyers to be trained in 11 months. Why does ALPA?

3. ALPA has lost control of the flying by allowing management to put flying out for bid based on cost. Collective bargaining doesn't work well in a highly competitive free market based environement. Again the solution to this is some type of "brand scope" or "inclusive scope".

 

[BoilerUP]

3) I don't have much knowledge about the whole ALPA thing, and all of those issues, but I fail to see as how ALPA has done a single thing for the airlines over the past few years.

Seems to me ALPA has kept management from imposing their own pay & workrules on Mesaba pilots thus far, and has negotiated mutual concessions for every other pilot group that voted to take them. ALPA is fighting hard to get Air Wisconsin their old contract back because the concessions they took in 2003 were based upon lies from management. PDT & PSA ALPA stood together and refused to fly CRJ900s under concessionary terms. DCI ALPA & the RAH Teamsters are working together to prevent whipsaw on the pilot group level. While the argument could be made ALPA National has failed to have a strong scope & small jet policy the last 15 years, ALPA as a whole is not Duane Woerth and a building in Herndon; ALPA is every pilot with a number/card/pin, every pilot in an airline's pilot group, and every pilot in a Local.

ALPA can only do what is in the law, and when the judicial system throws the RLA out for management but yet holds labor to it (as they did with NWA flight attendants), your hands are somewhat tied.

Do you read Flying the Line Vol 2? If not, PM me your address and I will send you a copy in the next week. Any pilot that wants to fly professionally should, at the very least, read this book as well as Hard Landing. If you read them you will understand what line pilots have dealt with since Deregulation and exactly what ALPA has done.

I hope Vol. 3 is in the works, discussing the rise of the regional jet and the effects of 9/11. It should be titled "The Line Pilot in Peril".

 

[Rekks Inbound]

BoilerUp,

SPOT ON! To all those out there who bash ALPA, think about this: Are you bashing the ALPA that existed from the late '90's, or ALPA from it's entire history. I think most of us who are pro-ALPA would like to see the current cabal in Herndon gone. But what several of us have said is the truth, whether you like it or not. ALPA does a LOT of good things for the pilots it represents, and that strength comes from the local groups and the services at National, not the nessesarily leadership.

Peace.

Rekks

 

[Murdoughnut]

No kiddding...most of the people in the poverty class are extremely stupid, lazy, dysfunctional, or outright criminal.

To be correct, most of the people in the poverty class in this country are children.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

The real problem pinnacle faces is the drop in capacity if compass are operating far more comfortable CRJ's than 9E. The FF's are already putting in protections to aviod 9E at all costs if such a thing were to happen(no FC seats).

 

[PositionandHold]

Except for the one doofus wearing his leather instead of the blazer like everyone else.

Does it really matter?

 

[kmox29]

The real problem pinnacle faces is the drop in capacity if compass are operating far more comfortable CRJ's than 9E. The FF's are already putting in protections to aviod 9E at all costs if such a thing were to happen(no FC seats).

YourPilotFriend is right...if it weren't for those bast#*ds at NWA management creating Compass...wait..what?...the NWA pilots allowed the creation of Compass...WTF?

But seriously, let's get this thread back to where it belongs...leather jackets...why would you ever get one?!?

Bet even more seriously, keep the fight Pinnacle...

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

YourPilotFriend is right...if it weren't for those bast#*ds at NWA management creating Compass...wait..what?...the NWA pilots allowed the creation of Compass...WTF?

But seriously, let's get this thread back to where it belongs...leather jackets...why would you ever get one?!?

Bet even more seriously, keep the fight Pinnacle...

The leather jacket matches the boots!