ALPA's "problem"

[The_Russian]

I have been skimming over the threads on ALPA. I am not a member of ALPA, so I am not fully educated on their magnificent ways. I am a Teamster. Thus, I am equally worthless. However, I would like to point out something I have been seeing:

1. ALPA does not recognize that 70+ seat aircraft are NOT regional aircraft. Also, that mainline should be flying them under their contracts. Or, that pilots in those aircraft should be paid at mainline rates.

2. ALPA does not stop these aircraft from flying "mainline" routes.

3. ALPA has not aided in separating RJs from the turboprop stigma. For example: RJ FO starting pay is $21/hour, BE1900 starting pay $18 dollars an hour.

I would expect ALPA, as a union, to achieve the best for its members. But, they do not. They have not helped at all to raise the QOL and compensation for regional pilots. They have allowed alter ego carriers to rise in the place of others causing massive furloughs.

So why would I, if I worked at SkyWest, want ALPA representing me? What are they going to do for me? They will most likely bring my second and third year pay down to the Beech pay every other RJ driver is getting.

Think about it. Discuss...

 

[Napoleon TNT]

Russian-
You are correct on most points, except 1-

ALPA is not a Union.
ALPA is an Association.

Unions do things to help out their workers.

Associations can be thought of as "Clubs." People with common interests pay money (2% of earnings) to be a part of the club. Does the club do anything constructive? Not really.

 

[atrdriver]

1. ALPA does not recognize that 70+ seat aircraft are NOT regional aircraft. Also, that mainline should be flying them under their contracts. Or, that pilots in those aircraft should be paid at mainline rates.

And do the Teamsters recognize that? Do the Teamsters in fact do anything in your list?

 

[The_Russian]

And do the Teamsters recognize that? Do the Teamsters in fact do anything in your list?

No. The Local 747 is absolutely worthless. Don't fret, I am not suggesting that the Teamsters are any better.

 

[Nindiri]

I can't speak for the SkyWest pilots, but I can say for myself that ALPA intervened and saved my medical when the FAA went crazy trying to take it away.

 

[FDJ2]

So why would I, if I worked at SkyWest, want ALPA representing me?

SkyWest Pilots ALPA Organizing Committee

September 29, 2006

Dear Fellow SkyWest Pilot:

We, the members of the SkyWest Pilots ALPA Organizing Committee, write to ask that you join us in pursuing a critically important opportunity to improve our careers and our airline by signing
the enclosed Authorization for Representation Election card seeking an election to designate
ALPA as our collective bargaining representative.
We have spent the last several months meeting internally to consider what we want from our
careers at SkyWest and how best to achieve those goals. Our company is profitable and growing, and we play a significant role in contributing to its continued success. Looking to the future, we want to ensure that SkyWest pilots are recognized for our contributions and share in our airline’s profitability. We believe the best way to accomplish that is by working through a certified collective bargaining representative to negotiate a legally enforceable contract with management.​

Through our internal discussions, we have identified specific goals for our future as SkyWest pilots. We have carefully considered the options for making those goals a reality, and have concluded that the Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l (ALPA) has the resources, the expertise, and the experience to represent SkyWest pilots and to help us achieve these goals. ALPA is the only association that serves only airline pilots, and we are convinced that ALPA offers us the superb combination of resources and clout of a large international union [FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,BoldItalic]and [/FONT]the local autonomy that will
allow us to create a powerful and representative union of our pilot group at our airline. Here’s why we think so:​

​

We want to promote safety in our practices, policies, and in our contract, and will join with management to ensure that SkyWest Airlines maintains its excellent safety record. ​

[FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]ALPA is [/FONT][FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]the only union that can offer us the benefits of its extensive aviation safety and security network. [/FONT][FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]ALPA works closely with manufacturers and government agencies to ensure that pilots’ [/FONT][FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]concerns and needs are addressed, and commands the respect of the entire industry for its [/FONT][FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]safety work. ALPA trains pilots in accident investigation, professional standards, and aviation [/FONT][FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]security, and offers professional, technical, and financial support for safety- and securityrelated[/FONT][FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]activities and programs.[/FONT]​

•
We want to promote a positive and constructive labor-relations environment, and we want to develop clear and enforceable rules. We want to work with management to resolve disputes ina fair and timely manner. ​

[FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]ALPA will provide the support and resources we need to attain these [/FONT][FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]goals with a full team of professionals, including highly experienced negotiators, benefits [/FONT][FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]specialists, and contract administrators.[/FONT]​

•
We want to achieve compensation, work rules, benefits, and job security that recognize the substantial contribution that pilots make to the success of SkyWest.
[FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]ALPA has the experience [/FONT][FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]and financial resources to support our efforts from the beginning so that we can realize this goal [/FONT][FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]in the shortest possible time.[/FONT]​

•
We want a pilot leadership that seeks input and involvement from its members, is open, inclusive, and democratic, and represents its members professionally and effectively. ​

[FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]ALPA [/FONT][FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]will provide the training and governance structure to support a democratic and open union.[/FONT]​

•
We want our pilot group to participate actively in our union and to seek opportunities to work constructively for the good of our profession and for a stronger union.
[FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]As members of ALPA, we [/FONT][FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]will work side by side with our peers to improve the foundation of this profession.[/FONT]​

Through ALPA representation, we will build unity within our pilot group. A unified pilot group
and a negotiated contract will foster a relationship with management that is constructive and that advances the airline’s and the pilots’ future success.​

In the end, it is up to us, the pilots of SkyWest, to secure and protect our future. We believe that
ALPA provides us the means to accomplish that. ​

We are confident that as you learn more about
the many advantages of ALPA representation, you will agree that this is the best course for us.
To learn more or get involved in the effort to bring ALPA to SkyWest, call the Organizing​

Fraternally,
[FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Bold]The SkyWest Pilots ALPA Organizing Committee[/FONT]​

 

[Lazy8]

So what happens if the majority rules against ALPA? SkyWest takes more ASA flying, ASA strikes, SkyWest takes all of ASA's flying, and ALPA throws every SKYW pilot on the ole scab-list? Is that the real worry here? Would this big ALPA push be the current hot topic if SkyWest never bought ASA?

I don't know folks, they call them the REGIONALS for good reason. If you want to make a doctor's pay and hours you don't stay a nurse your whole life.

*ducks for cover*

g

 

[Positive Rate]

SkyWest Pilots ALPA Organizing Committee

September 29, 2006

Dear Fellow SkyWest Pilot:​

We, the members of the SkyWest Pilots ALPA Organizing Committee, write to ask that you join us in pursuing a critically important opportunity to improve our careers and our airline by signing

the enclosed Authorization for Representation Election card seeking an election to designate
ALPA as our collective bargaining representative.
We have spent the last several months meeting internally to consider what we want from our
careers at SkyWest and how best to achieve those goals. Our company is profitable and growing, and we play a significant role in contributing to its continued success. Looking to the future, we want to ensure that SkyWest pilots are recognized for our contributions and share in our airline’s profitability. We believe the best way to accomplish that is by working through a certified collective bargaining representative to negotiate a legally enforceable contract with management.​

Through our internal discussions, we have identified specific goals for our future as SkyWest pilots. We have carefully considered the options for making those goals a reality, and have concluded that the Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l (ALPA) has the resources, the expertise, and the experience to represent SkyWest pilots and to help us achieve these goals. ALPA is the only association that serves only airline pilots, and we are convinced that ALPA offers us the superb combination of resources and clout of a large international union [FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,BoldItalic]and [/FONT]the local autonomy that will
allow us to create a powerful and representative union of our pilot group at our airline. Here’s why we think so:​

​

We want to promote safety in our practices, policies, and in our contract, and will join with management to ensure that SkyWest Airlines maintains its excellent safety record. ​

[FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]ALPA is [/FONT][FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]the only union that can offer us the benefits of its extensive aviation safety and security network. [/FONT][FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]ALPA works closely with manufacturers and government agencies to ensure that pilots’ [/FONT][FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]concerns and needs are addressed, and commands the respect of the entire industry for its [/FONT][FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]safety work. ALPA trains pilots in accident investigation, professional standards, and aviation [/FONT][FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]security, and offers professional, technical, and financial support for safety- and securityrelated[/FONT][FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]activities and programs.[/FONT]​

•
We want to promote a positive and constructive labor-relations environment, and we want to develop clear and enforceable rules. We want to work with management to resolve disputes ina fair and timely manner. ​

[FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]ALPA will provide the support and resources we need to attain these [/FONT][FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]goals with a full team of professionals, including highly experienced negotiators, benefits [/FONT][FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]specialists, and contract administrators.[/FONT]​

•
We want to achieve compensation, work rules, benefits, and job security that recognize the substantial contribution that pilots make to the success of SkyWest.
[FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]ALPA has the experience [/FONT][FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]and financial resources to support our efforts from the beginning so that we can realize this goal [/FONT][FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]in the shortest possible time.[/FONT]​

•
We want a pilot leadership that seeks input and involvement from its members, is open, inclusive, and democratic, and represents its members professionally and effectively. ​

[FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]ALPA [/FONT][FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]will provide the training and governance structure to support a democratic and open union.[/FONT]​

•
We want our pilot group to participate actively in our union and to seek opportunities to work constructively for the good of our profession and for a stronger union.
[FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]As members of ALPA, we [/FONT][FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Italic]will work side by side with our peers to improve the foundation of this profession.[/FONT]​

Through ALPA representation, we will build unity within our pilot group. A unified pilot group
and a negotiated contract will foster a relationship with management that is constructive and that advances the airline’s and the pilots’ future success.​

In the end, it is up to us, the pilots of SkyWest, to secure and protect our future. We believe that
ALPA provides us the means to accomplish that. ​

We are confident that as you learn more about
the many advantages of ALPA representation, you will agree that this is the best course for us.
To learn more or get involved in the effort to bring ALPA to SkyWest, call the Organizing​

Fraternally,

[FONT=NewCenturySchoolbook,Bold]The SkyWest Pilots ALPA Organizing Committee[/FONT]​

Isnt trying to sell your business or organization against www.flightinfo.com policy?

 

[DrewBlows]

Isnt trying to sell your business or organization against www.flightinfo.com policy?

The overall purpose of the FlightInfo.com forums is to exchange information, opinions and general thoughts about all aspects of aviation, as well as on selected topics outside of aviation but of interest to aviators.

Rules and Guidelines

I have noticed lately that there are several new members whose sole purpose seems to be slaming ALPA. If you have an opinion, let's talk. When you post one or two sentences degrading ALPA with no insight, no fact, and barely an opinion you waste what little bandwith you are using along with other members time. Is this really worth $10?

 

[ex j-41]

Alpa Needs To Stop Working At Getting New Contracts And Start Working For Its Current Members.

 

[FDJ2]

Isnt trying to sell your business or organization against www.flightinfo.com policy?

I'm not selling anything, those Skywest Pilots make some good points that should answer the question posed.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

How can ALPA work for it's members when there is an airline that is lower cost. If ALPA held the line a LCC fun fare at $100 would be competing with an $1100 legacy fare. Yeah good idea, that makes good business sense. ALPA has to compete in the market it is in, if skywest is the lowest, ALPA has to match and try its best to lessen the blow.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

How can ALPA work for it's members when there is an airline that is lower cost. If ALPA held the line a LCC fun fare at $100 would be competing with an $1100 legacy fare. Yeah good idea, that makes good business sense. ALPA has to compete in the market it is in, if skywest is the lowest, ALPA has to match and try its best to lessen the blow.

I know SKW is not the lowest out there, but I'm not sure where they are ranked though. However, what I don't understand is why ASA is being asked to accept a contract that would undercut SkyWest? Outside of the obvious greed and whipsaw by management.

 

[Lazy8]

A good solution...

How can ALPA work for it's members when there is an airline that is lower cost. If ALPA held the line a LCC fun fare at $100 would be competing with an $1100 legacy fare. Yeah good idea, that makes good business sense. ALPA has to compete in the market it is in, if skywest is the lowest, ALPA has to match and try its best to lessen the blow.

Here's an idea. SkyWest should just sell ASA to Mesa. Mesa pilots are ALPA members and actually are/have been/probably always will be leading the race to the bottom. This way, since both airlines are already ALPA members, there's nobody to complain to expect...hmmm... ALPA? *gasp* heavens no!

SkyWest has never and isn't currently leading any race to the bottom. It's a fast growing company and just because they're not getting overnight raises via strike threats doesn't mean the employees are being treated unfairly or poorly. Good things will come for the pilots at SkyWest just as they always have for the past 29 years(with or without ALPA representation).

g

 

[Rekks Inbound]

.....

 

[Lazy8]

Good Lord people, where to begin?

1: The Race to the Bottom.
What do

uhm.... ?

Did I hit a nerve?

 

[Rekks Inbound]

Good Lord people, where to begin?

1: The Race to the Bottom.
What do you at Skywest think flying up to 99 seat a/c for 50 seat rates is? Of course, if you had a LEGALLY BINDING CONTRACT, and had negotiated those rates subject to end on such and such a date, at least you would have legal recourse. It's called a grievance.

2:Contract vs. Employee handbook.
Which one is legally binding on BOTH PARTIES?
Which one can be changed at the whim of management?

3:Whipsaw.
Do you really think that if ASA accepts a contract 'worse' than your Employee Handbook, that the management at Skywest is going to leave you alone then? (disclaimer:I am confident that ASA will NOT accept a concessionary contract). In which case, as Skywest transfers flying from your now sister company to Skywest, you put your pilot 'brothers' out on the street. That's real nice guys.

4:ALPA holding the line, preventing lower ticket prices.
ALPA does not set ticket prices, or control cost of product to the end user. ALPA simply represents the pilots at each individual carrier.

5:ALPA is useless.
I won't argue that the current crop in Washington is not my favorite group of guys, but who cares, really? The inportant people at ALPA are the local reps, elect good ones and you will have a good relationship with management. the important ones are the ones who give the legal and financial support to the locals.

Peace. Discuss.

Rekks

 

[Rekks Inbound]

Sorry about the triple post, something goofy just happened, and I'm trying to delete the prior posts.

Peace.

Rekks

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

What can ALPA do for Skywest? More than what SW has, but ALPA is already doing alot for SW. SW is simply enjoying the benefits without the effort. You know....free loading...

If you do not understand the value of representation on CapHill, then you might think ALPA is useless.

There was a recent legislation push to make a legal strike an act of terrorism and a disqualifying event for transport worker employment. It was stopped by unions.

Do you think the SW pilots had any connection to this effort that they benefited from?

SW pilots- it is time to step up to the plate and be Air Line Pilots.

What will ALPA do for you? No, what will you do with the ALPA resources you bring on to the property. Look in the mirror. All the answers to all your problems are there....

 

[Lazy8]

SW pilots- it is time to step up to the plate and be Air Line Pilots.

*gasp*

A real airline pilot? Wow! Wait till I tell my pilot buddy over at UPS, making the highest industry pay with no ALPA, about this! I can't wait to jump onboard this political roller coaster!

If you want a group of pilots to join your association, don't badmouth their current employer, wages, QOL, job, etc... "Hey, so your airline has managed to become super profitable, give thousands of pilots a secure job, give great benefits/rewards programs to employees, continues to grow and prosper, and pay you a living wage. Oh but, you guys suck and your management is out to get you any day.... Even though they haven't for the past 29 years..."

Thank you! Come again!

g

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

*gasp*

A real airline pilot? Wow! Wait till I tell my pilot buddy over at UPS, making the highest industry pay with no ALPA, about this!
g

Your buddy at UPS is part of http://www.capapilots.org/

The UPS pilots are one of the highest paid because they are politically engaged. The SW pilots are in fair condition because SW is the golden child of regionals because they are union free. We all love blondes with big cans and management loves SW.

The UPS pilots are a part of the political process that effects Air Line Pilots. If you want to be an effective Air Line Pilot then you must engage in politics.

If you are not a part of the political process that protects and defends the intrests of Air Line Pilots then you are not an Air Line Pilot.

If you think being an Air Line Pilot is simply showing up to work and flying the jet then you must be a SW pilot.

 

[Lazy8]

Your buddy at UPS is part of http://www.capapilots.org/

The UPS pilots are one of the highest paid because they are politically engaged. The SW pilots are in fair condition because SW is the golden child of regionals because they are union free. We all love blondes with big cans and management loves SW.

The UPS pilots are a part of the political process that effects Air Line Pilots. If you want to be an effective Air Line Pilot then you must engage in politics.

If you are not a part of the political process that protects and defends the intrests of Air Line Pilots then you are not an Air Line Pilot.

If you think being an Air Line Pilot is simply showing up to work and flying the jet then you must be a SW pilot.

This all coming from a guy that has "Fix ALPA" under his username.

I bet you wear your uniform to bars don't you?

Why don't you just chill with this macho "this is how you become a real airline pilot" junk. Have some faith that the SkyWest pilots can look at this with some common sense and make a smart decision. Shoving propaganda up in their face really doesn't help the cause. It's pretty obvious to me that there are more choices out there than ALPA, which aren't exactly doing a stellar job in the regional sector.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

This all coming from a guy that has "Fix ALPA" under his username.

Yes. There is room for improvement. Don't you think?

I bet you wear your uniform to bars don't you?

So its about me now? I'd rather stick to the issue, but if this is what you'd like to discuss, then follow up....

Why don't you just chill with this macho "this is how you become a real airline pilot" junk. Have some faith that the SkyWest pilots can look at this with some common sense and make a smart decision.

The SW pilots are looking at ALPA with the viewpoint of "Why ALPA and what can ALPA do for me/us" It is more than that. As Fins said, it is about becomming a member of an organization that defends the profession.

What did the SW pilots do to contribute to the LAHSO problem?
Does the SW pilots have a safety and engineering dept?
Does the NTSB ask the SW pilots to be party to accident invrstigation?
Do the SW pilots have a voice on CapHill?
What do the SW pilots think about Age60?

Shoving propaganda up in their face really doesn't help the cause.

I am not shoving propaganda. I am telling the SW pilots it is time to man up. There is more to what is going on than just SW. It's not only about SW. The more pilot groups we have under one organization the more effective we can be. It is also time for the APA, IPA and NPA to quit going solo. It doesn't have to be ALPA. It can be a new union with all included but the more we have the more effective we are....

What are the SW pilots doing about the Foreign Control Legislation? I am intrested in your answer because the foreign control legislation will effect the SW pilots tremendously.

 

[Lazy8]

You make some good points. I know ALPA does alot for commercial pilots. I don't believe them to be a big evil association; however, as you said, their is room for improvement and I think they need to improve before they continuing pursuing more airlines and get so big that the whole thing is completely mismanaged.

But this issue is also very much about the pilots on a personal level. They're comfortable. SkyWest management has treated them good. ALPA regionals across the board are looking rough. Mesa pilots can barely afford Top Ramen yet their company turns huge profits. Sure, they have more legally binding work rules, but that's because they need it. Just because SKYW pilots don't send 2% of their paycheck to an already $$ bloated association doesn't make them any less of an airline pilot. This is like telling someone who was never been in the military that they aren't American because they never served their country.

I suppose the fear that ALPA will make things worse at SKYW just for the sake of unionizing every airline is the biggest concern.

 

[foofighter101]

Rez O. Lewshun

I am not shoving propaganda. I am telling the SW pilots it is time to man up. There is more to what is going on than just SW. It's not only about SW. The more pilot groups we have under one organization the more effective we can be. It is also time for the APA, IPA and NPA to quit going solo. It doesn't have to be ALPA. It can be a new union with all included but the more we have the more effective we are...

So.......Since ALPA is doing such a great job representing you, why are you so worried about what Skywest is doing? I know, if EVERY airline were ALPA then they would finally have the power they need to rule the universe, blah blah blah. WRONG!!! ALPA already "represents" the majority of the industry! Look around, ALPA is powerless! It's cute that the ALPA club seems to make you feel better about yourself though! Thank you for your concern.

 

[John Pennekamp]

ALPA's problem is a bloated, self serving administration that's all about holing up in a wood paneled room in DC and smoking Cohibas while drinking fine single malt scotch and longing for the "good old days". All on union the dime, mind you.

The ALPA member's problem is pilots with SJS who will do anything to fly that shiny jet... and really don't need the money. So they undercut us and get the jobs, we are edged out or forced to take pay cuts.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You make some good points. I know ALPA does alot for commercial pilots. I don't believe them to be a big evil association; however, as you said, their is room for improvement and I think they need to improve before they continuing pursuing more airlines and get so big that the whole thing is completely mismanaged.

I think the SW pilots will make a good addition to ALPA. Everyone brings something to the table. The trick is, the SW pilots have to be ready to make ALPA work on thier property. If ALPA is voted in (democracy) and the SW pilots say.. Ok, let's see what you can do, ALPA will fail at SW. The SW pilots must take the ALPA resource and make it work for them.

But this issue is also very much about the pilots on a personal level. They're comfortable. SkyWest management has treated them good.

And why is that? JB management has declared that unions have no place on thier property and if a union comes to JB then management has failed. Yet SWA simply looks at unions as thier working partners.

Do you see the difference in mentality? And the difference in company performance.

ALPA regionals across the board are looking rough. Mesa pilots can barely afford Top Ramen yet their company turns huge profits. Sure, they have more legally binding work rules, but that's because they need it. Just because SKYW pilots don't send 2% of their paycheck to an already $$ bloated association doesn't make them any less of an airline pilot. This is like telling someone who was never been in the military that they aren't American because they never served their country.

See my above response. Unions don't ruin airlines. that is a management myth that they love to promote.

Quite often you see posters on this message board saying ALPA is useless. Well if ALPA is useless then how can they ruin airlines?

I suppose the fear that ALPA will make things worse at SKYW just for the sake of unionizing every airline is the biggest concern.

Fear? As professionals how about facing your fears and dealing with them. Management fears unionization. We all have fears, however,the trick is to control and overcome.

Again ALPA won't make things worse. If it gets worse at SW it's because the pilots did not use the union resource properly.

Why did CAL and FEDEX come back to ALPA? Have you seen the FEDEX TA? Did you see the UAL2000 and DAL2001 agreements? There weren't ALPA compliants then... and no kudos either, becuase then ALPA did exactly what everyone expects.... leading contracts....

But you can't have a leading contact when the company is shrinking... how is that ALPA's fault?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez O. Lewshun



So.......Since ALPA is doing such a great job representing you, why are you so worried about what Skywest is doing? I know, if EVERY airline were ALPA then they would finally have the power they need to rule the universe, blah blah blah. WRONG!!! ALPA already "represents" the majority of the industry! Look around, ALPA is powerless! It's cute that the ALPA club seems to make you feel better about yourself though! Thank you for your concern.

Because the more pilots under the same banner the more effective. Strength in numbers. Simply put. That benefits both SW and ALPA.

ALPA is not powerless. In fact they were just party to stopping legislation in the recent Port Security bill that would make striking an act of terrorism and a non qualifying event for employment.

But you say, we can't stike anyway so who cares. Well, if a pilot struck at another carrier they couldn't apply to SW.

But maybe you don't want a striker working at SW anyway.... so who does that leave? Scabs and SJS dreamers?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

ALPA's problem is a bloated, self serving administration that's all about holing up in a wood paneled room in DC and smoking Cohibas while drinking fine single malt scotch and longing for the "good old days". All on union the dime, mind you.

The ALPA member's problem is pilots with SJS who will do anything to fly that shiny jet... and really don't need the money. So they undercut us and get the jobs, we are edged out or forced to take pay cuts.

I've been to both ALPA locations. In my opinion they are a bit drab. I think our building should look a bit more classy. But that is me.

As far as special rooms? The only one a member can't go into in the Ladies Room, unless you are lady.

As far as your last statment, we live in a free captialistic society. Unions can't control who applies and is hired at a company. Get it?

 

[JoeMerchant]

The problem with ALPA is that it fails to deal with the core causes of the decline in bargaining power. If we can address these issues, we can regain some bargaining power. If we continue to ignore these issues, the free market will continue..

1. The top pay at a regional, and most of the pay at a mainline puts you in the top 10% of W2 earners. Combine that with the ability to have a 3 day work week and it isn't really that bad of a job. That is a lot to give up if you choose to "draw a line in the sand" and it causes you to have to start over again at the bottom somewhere else. This causes at least 50% of any pilot group to do whatever it takes to save the company even if it lowers the bar. The only solution to this dilemma is some form of national seniority, or at least brand seniority, combined with minimum contract standards.

2. Very low entrance requirements. Can you think of any other job with the same level of responsibility that can be achieved so easily? You can go from 0 time to a 121 FO in less than a year at some of the puppy farms. The solution to this problem is higher 121 requirements. The AMA and ABA would never allow doctors or lawyers to be trained in 11 months. Why does ALPA?

3. ALPA has lost control of the flying by allowing management to put flying out for bid based on cost. Collective bargaining doesn't work well in a highly competitive free market based environement. Again the solution to this is some type of "brand scope" or "inclusive scope".