Jetblue headed to ORD?

[Frank Lorenzo]

You are so right, certainly don't want those LCC's hanging out at ORD, that place should be reserved for the real airlines!

Got that right.

If you want an airport that matches the class of airline maybe you should apply to fly into Gary Indiana.

 

[MRYFLYER]

It's just amazing to me that the DOJ allows these quasi monopolies at key airports around the country. The response by UAL is sour grapes. They say protocol needs to be followed and that Jetblue cannot file a request until after 10/28/06.
imp:

Why have protocol if it is not to be followed? Using your logic there should be no laws in this country. You can not play within the laws then tuff tiffy.

As for a quasi monopoly. JB is more than welcome to purchase gates at ORD as they become available from those that purchased them in the first place. Your form of thinking is directly akin to taking food off the table of someone that has bought their own dinner and giving it to those that can not afford to feed themselves. Are things so bad at JB that they are becoming a welfare-air?

 

[MRYFLYER]

Of course we all remember Mr. Skeen from flyi telling the world how vital ORD slots were to the success of his airline. That proved very untrue and if I was AA and UA attorneys I would pointing that out in this battle with the DOJ.

 

[FlyUnited]

It's just amazing to me that the DOJ allows these quasi monopolies at key airports around the country. The response by UAL is sour grapes. They say protocol needs to be followed and that Jetblue cannot file a request until after 10/28/06. I'm not sure how the FAA will respond, but I personally see no problem with getting the request in prior to that date and letting the FAA make a pre-emtive decision to be effective after 10/28/06. Hopefully that will be the way it goes, but either way I believe Jetblue is in!

imp:

How do you consider that sour grapes?

Would you allow the government to take part of your homes property and then GIVE it to your neighbor because they don't have as much land as you? United and American owned those slots and were forced to give them up. If they are going to return them, UA and AA are the rightful owners.

Unless of course you think like a Democrat, then I guess we should work hard and give it to the poor.

 

[lowecur]

Why have protocol if it is not to be followed? Using your logic there should be no laws in this country. You can not play within the laws then tuff tiffy. Where in that Bill does it state a request cannot be made until the bill is effective on Oct 28th? If there is past precedent on these types of bills, then Jetblue will have to wait until Oct 28th. Somehow I think they can manage that. However, I don't blame them for trying to get things going earlier as substantial revenue is involved, and they just may get their wish. What I find comical, is the childish response by UALs lawyers on this issue. You don't see AA acting along these lines. Personally, I think the DOJ is watching this very carefully and will dole out their own form of fairness when and if UAL wants a merger.

As for a quasi monopoly. JB is more than welcome to purchase gates at ORD as they become available from those that purchased them in the first place. It remains to be seen if the US Airways gate is being turned in for lack of use or if they are selling it to Jetblue. In either case, Jetblue will do what is necessary. Your form of thinking is directly akin to taking food off the table of someone that has bought their own dinner and giving it to those that can not afford to feed themselves. Are things so bad at JB that they are becoming a welfare-air?

They're coming to ORD, get over it already.

imp:

 

[zonker]

Or you could think like a Republican and give tax breaks to all your wealthy friends, squeeze the middle class with 20% inflation the last 5 years, and advocate the beat down of labor unions using the court system.

Yea, that should work.

 

[lowecur]

How do you consider that sour grapes?

Would you allow the government to take part of your homes property and then GIVE it to your neighbor because they don't have as much land as you? United and American owned those slots and were forced to give them up. If they are going to return them, UA and AA are the rightful owners. Life is tough. Get over it.

Unless of course you think like a Democrat, then I guess we should work hard and give it to the poor.

No, you should just declare bankruptcy and screw many of your creditors.

imp:

 

[Kharma Police]

I guess since United decided to finally pay its bills, it can now morally claim that, "everyone should follow the rules like US!"

 

[FlyUnited]

Sorry if the bk laws are upsetting to you. But, as long as they are legal......

I doubt JB gets the routes or the gates.

 

[Indy refugee]

Why have protocol if it is not to be followed? Using your logic there should be no laws in this country. You can not play within the laws then tuff tiffy.

As for a quasi monopoly. JB is more than welcome to purchase gates at ORD as they become available from those that purchased them in the first place. Your form of thinking is directly akin to taking food off the table of someone that has bought their own dinner and giving it to those that can not afford to feed themselves. Are things so bad at JB that they are becoming a welfare-air?

Actually, you should read the whole docket in order to understand what is going on. I'll try to summarize for you, but the whole docket is available.

First, the FAA enacted the current sloting system on a temporary basis. They did so expecting a permanent solution by now. It has been extended several times and currently is set to expire on October 31, 2006. Now, because of the temporary nature of the current system, it lacks several key features of most slot programs. #1, awarded slots can not be sold or leased to other carriers. They can only be traded, ie 1pm slot can be traded for a 5 pm slot, but no monetary consideration may be exchanged. #2, there is no use-or-lose provision as is common in slot control porgrams.

The next thing to happen was on August 29, 2006 when the FAA finalized the final rule. Under the final rule, to take effect on November 1st, carrier may sell, lease or buy, rent slots to/from other carriers. So the FAA recognized that a carrier currently holding unused slots would be encouraged to wait for November 1st at which time they could sell/lease their slots.

So, on September 22, the FAA proposed to allow carriers to sell unused slots in the interim and ask for comments prior to September 29th. Enter Independence Air, they have 10 slots at ORD. Since there is no use or lose provision, they still possess those slots and I'm sure the creditors would like to get some money for them. So they enter comments favoring the proposed change. AA and the city of Chicago also enter comments supporting the change. UAL generally supported the change, but had some 'suggestions'. They also requested that the final decision be made by 10/6/2006, to allow time for leases/sales to be negotiated.

Sometime after that, UA and AA see the filings by Independence and JetBlue and smell a rat, or more accurately they fear they may have been outsmarted. AA files a motion to request leave to file comments in response to Indy's filing, while UA questions JB request.

The above are the facts as near as I could tell from the docket. Note,I'm not a lawyer and I didn't even sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

The rest is my opinion. I think Indy and JB probably already have a deal to sell the slots. JetBlue's filing is a contigency filing. If the FAA decides not to allow the sales of slots prior to Nov 1st and then subsequently takes the Indy slots due to the 'new' use-or-lose provision, JB would be in a position to get those unused slots, as UAL proposed in their filing to JB's filing.

It sounds like JB has all their bases covered.

BTW, I think it is a priceless irony that the Indy slots may be JB's entry into ORD. Even in death, FLYi is still haunting UAL, or I mean UAUA.

 

[Zipperhead]

Too bad it's getting under all the United types skin, all's fair in love and war.

 

[HomerJ]

Don't worry, FlyUnited, here's how it will probably go. Assuming JetBlue uses their slots to serve LGB and JFK, you'll just lower your fares on ORD-LGA and ORD-LAX with overlapping service. Those particular flights will probably lose money, but in the big scheme of things, does it really matter? BK laws, GE, your crack management team, every greedy judge in Chicago, the BOD, every greedy politician in Chicago, and John Q. Taxpayer will see to it that you'll be just fine. It's worked beautifully for Delta, just insert Atlanta for Chicago in the above scenario and you can see that it's all good. Now relax about JetBlue and go have a drink.

 

[Charlie Brown]

Didn't AIR-21 eliminate (or at least set a phase-out date for) all this slot stuff? Am I missing something?

 

[koko nw]

Too bad it's getting under all the United types skin, all's fair in love and war.

Sure is Zipper,
Hey by the way, how did that little merger work out for you guy's?? I guess it's all fair in love and war eh? Right?

 

[koko nw]

Life is tough. Get over it.

No, you should just declare bankruptcy and screw many of your creditors.

imp:

Are you always this stupid or are you making a special effort today?

 

[MRYFLYER]

They're coming to ORD, get over it already.

imp:

I could care less if welfareair wants to come to ORD. As the UA spokeswoman said we can transport our ORD customers to 100's of destinations that B6 can not. I certainly hope you guys get the US Air gates, the concourse is a bit unkempt and could use a professionals touch at sprucing the newspapers and coffee cups.

 

[lowecur]

Life is tough. Get over it.


Are you always this STUPENDOUS or are you making a special effort today?

A special effort for those with special needs.

imp:

 

[lowecur]

I could care less if welfareair wants to come to ORD. As the UA spokeswoman said we can transport our ORD customers to 100's of destinations that B6 can not. I certainly hope you guys get the US Air gates, the concourse is a bit unkempt and could use a professionals touch at sprucing the newspapers and coffee cups.

My latest projection for merger is UAL/US Air. CAL and DAL have turned their noses up for discussions from Goldman Sachs. That leaves the only viable candidate as Dougy and Co, and they are more than willing to do a deal. The Wall St. Bankers will push this thru because of the money that will be made, and then dump the mess in Dougy's lap. US Air is already making nice with the DOJ by offering an unused gate at ORD, but that's only the beginning of the gate and slot divestitures to get this deal approved.

imp:

 

[MRYFLYER]

BTW, I think it is a priceless irony that the Indy slots may be JB's entry into ORD. Even in death, FLYi is still haunting UAL, or I mean UAUA.

I think the real priceless event will be UA dashing the dreams of an ex flyi pilot. We were able to take the wind out of the sails of all that crap that spewed from your group previously and to get a chance to treat you like a redheaded step child once again is truly a treat.

Here is a question for you. What happens to the B6 pax when on the rare occasion (tic) that JFK and or ORD are involved in flow programs. UA and AA are able to shuffle slots and get the business flight to and fro. B6 will not have that luxury and without interlining it will also be priceless to see the looks on the pax face when they find out you guys can not rebook them on a real airline. Oh boy would I pay to see that!

I don't too many UA airplanes will make C or T with a B6 plane behind them so plan accordingly.

Glad to see you enjoyed your whipping by UA when you were at flyi. It will be our pleasure to issue you another.

 

[MRYFLYER]

My latest projection for merger is UAL/US Air. CAL and DAL have turned their noses up for discussions from Goldman Sachs. That leaves the only viable candidate as Dougy and Co, and they are more than willing to do a deal. The Wall St. Bankers will push this thru because of the money that will be made, and then dump the mess in Dougy's lap. US Air is already making nice with the DOJ by offering an unused gate at ORD, but that's only the beginning of the gate and slot divestitures to get this deal approved.

imp:

Sure.....I don't think the CEO's get to make the decisions on acquisitions. It is the BOD and shareholders. The words of the CAL CEO are just that. He can not comment one way or the other on what is taking place due to SEC requirements. Of course in your reality anything is possible I suppose.