Save 717/767/737 jobs, vote NO and say No GO!

[Trash8Mofo]

hi there, Im asking for your help.

Please go to the following link and vote "NO" in the near future.

http://starbulletin.com/poll/index.html

Mesa airline's Go! division operating in Hawaii is an airline established solely for the purpose of running Aloha airlines (which I work for) outta business by selling money-lossing fares ($19/ow). Their tactic is to drive us out of business and then raise ticket price. The survival of my company, my job, and 7,000 other 717/767/737 jobs depend on your help.

The only way to drive Mesa out of Hawaii is to connivence their Board of Directors and investors that:

1) Mesa will continue to lose money as long as they operate in Hawaii
2) Aloha is not going anywhere, and (here is the part you can help)
3) The public does not endorse such bully tactic to drive 7,000 local families unemployed.

Please go to the following link and vote "NO".

http://starbulletin.com/poll/index.html

Thanks,
your vote matters, public opinion and PR is half the battle.

 

[murano]

Done! As a former ACA pilot I know what it's like to have that scum bag Ornstein meddle with your airline.

Who are those people voting YES?

Common folks, currently more YES votes than NO. Let's change that.

Good luck to you guys in Hawaii.

 

[Superpilot92]

done, just say NO

 

[TheGuat]

You're losing by a pretty wide margin.

 

[accinelli]

They are only Money Losing fares depending on the Labor Costs at MESA.

 

[lookin4better]

Its most likely the kids that are voting YES.....they have no real concept of future .....its sad.....im not being rude its just the truth....I am sure at 21-25 I would have been the same ......its a maturity issue, they actually think they are making things better for their careers......when actually they will be stalled at a pathetic low.

 

[EMB170Pilot]

no is winning now

 

[C-141/C-5]

IF YOU CARE ABOUT THIS INDUSTRY VOTE NO!!! MESA and there undercutting tactics are driving REAL pilot's wages down! MESA is Managements dream low time pilots with no aviation industy knowledge so they can abuse them and undercutt the rest of the workforce. I don't allow my family members to fly with MESA! 1. They take jobs away from Real pilots 2. They are just dangerous (From what I personally witnessed). I would say ALPA needs to go to universities to educate young pilots of MESA and GOJET, but they are representing MESA. ALPA is actually working against REAL PILOTS by representing MESA because they can't talk about how they are driving wages down in the industry and taking jobs away from mainline! Is ALPA really working for us?? NO! They just try to find a big pilot group to suck up the money and do nothing (MESA). It's time for US PILOTS to tell ALPA the MESA's and GOJETS are not acceptable. We want them out for the sake of this industy.

my 2 cents... go ahead and attack

 

[scrub]

Hey its a free market, thats what makes this a great country. The problem for the most part is pilots are lined up out the door to fly the jet for these scumbag operations, we are our own worst enemy!!!!!!

 

[C-141/C-5]

That's why these pilots need to be educated before they accept these jobs. They are being lied to by being told they will move up to a Major after a couple of years flying regionals. In reality the Mesas are taking the Major jobs and putting them in regionals and paying crap, so in the end you work at a place like Mesa the rest of your life because there are no more Major jobs. It is time for the pilots as a whole to stand up and use our resources to educate these young pilots. We can put these companies under if no one works for them, and it will force the recovery of this industry

 

[scrub]

how do you educate a 23 year old that has been flying 172s and is now presented the opportunity to fly an rj when hes got a hard on the size of an rj????????????

 

[C-141/C-5]

Have ALPA reps go to flight schools across the nation and have speeches during their classes. Just like these crap companies go to these flight schools and promise them RJ jobs out of college with 500 hours. This way they have both sides of the spectrum and hopefully they see the light and they won't become bottom feeders and the industry makes a turn for the good

 

[HighSpeedClimb]

They are only Money Losing fares depending on the Labor Costs at MESA.

$19 dollar fares...I'll give you a green spot if you can prove to me Mesa can make money on $19 fares...Its called predatory pricing, and its illegal. Call in the Fed's to investigate this..:uzi:

 

[Dizel8]

how do you educate a 23 year old that has been flying 172s and is now presented the opportunity to fly an rj when hes got a hard on the size of an rj????????????

Would that be a crj50 or the 900 type?

 

[PlaneDrvr]

Would that be a crj50 or the 900 type?

I believe all they fly there are CRJ50s, and even with Mesa's pay/costs; you still need about a 75% load factor on a 50seater just to "break-even." And, according to what I have read so far, they have been trying to 'overstate' their loads, then later admit the real #s. I believe that they have been running around 60-65% average, which more than likely means that they are "losing money"

just my $0.02

DA

 

[Freight Dog]

Actually, at $19, I doubt it's even possible for them to turn a profit.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Boy, this Independence carbon copy really didn't pay attention to the ending of that movie.

 

[McNugget]

Despite the paint job and website, it isn't even close to Independence Air.

I voted NO GO!, Johnny-O

 

[Itsallsogood]

How about the FAA consider this: Multi Commercial (Single-Multi) Prop...250 hrs. Single-Multi Commercial JET...1000hrs. Or higher 121 mins.?

 

[instructordude]

That's why these pilots need to be educated before they accept these jobs. They are being lied to by being told they will move up to a Major after a couple of years flying regionals. In reality the Mesas are taking the Major jobs and putting them in regionals and paying crap, so in the end you work at a place like Mesa the rest of your life because there are no more Major jobs. It is time for the pilots as a whole to stand up and use our resources to educate these young pilots. We can put these companies under if no one works for them, and it will force the recovery of this industry

I’m actually proud to be working at a regional carier flying a jet, even if pays me less than 20K a year. Why??? Cause I know down the road I’ll be in bigger equipment making close to 100K as a Capt. You can’t sneeze at 100K. For now I’m just getting the experience and paying my dues. I don’t mind the lower pay rates knowing it’ll be close to 6 figures down the road. A salary close to 100K would satisfy me for life.

 

[scrub]

I’m actually proud to be working at a regional carier flying a jet, even if pays me less than 20K a year. Why??? Cause I know down the road I’ll be in bigger equipment making close to 100K as a Capt. You can’t sneeze at 100K. For now I’m just getting the experience and paying my dues. I don’t mind the lower pay rates knowing it’ll be close to 6 figures down the road. A salary close to 100K would satisfy me for life.

ya just don't get it! If mgmt knows it can hire dipwads like you, the left seat of a 777 will pay $50.00/hr and you will go running for that job, then the next round of pay will be $40.00/hr!!! WAKE UP YOUNG BOY!!!!!!!

 

[Fallingbrick]

I’m actually proud to be working at a regional carier flying a jet, even if pays me less than 20K a year. Why??? Cause I know down the road I’ll be in bigger equipment making close to 100K as a Capt. You can’t sneeze at 100K. For now I’m just getting the experience and paying my dues. I don’t mind the lower pay rates knowing it’ll be close to 6 figures down the road. A salary close to 100K would satisfy me for life.

Scrub, and others that will respond to this obvious piece of flame bait…Stop, think, reread, and now think again. Wait two minutes …………………………………… …………………………………………………………………………………………………….. Ok, better? Do you honestly think that this poster (who is laughing his a$$ off in his dorm room as I type this) is serious? Do you even think that this person is really a pilot? Please, for the sake of wasting everyone’s time reading the responses to this flame bait do not respond. Thank you.

PS- You’ll find the ignore feature of this site very helpful for instances like this. :smash:

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

I’m actually proud to be working at a regional carier flying a jet, even if pays me less than 20K a year. Why??? Cause I know down the road I’ll be in bigger equipment making close to 100K as a Capt.

What if you didn't know that? What if the sky opened up, and a voice as big as God's boomed out..

"You're ALWAYS going to work for a regional, and your salary will ALWAYS be one dollar less than whatever some CFI/banner-tow pilot wants to do your job!"

I understand the dilemma of a young pilot trying to log some multi- and/or turbine experience. I don't fault you for that...EVERY person who's made it to the majors has sacrificed something to get to their present position. But don't think that the 100K, left seat job is a "given" in this business. Were it not for unions, the regional airline business would be filling the left seats of their RJ's with 35K per year Captains who were just waiting for a call from one of the majors.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

...the Mesas are taking the Major jobs and putting them in regionals and paying crap, so in the end you work at a place like Mesa the rest of your life because there are no more Major jobs. It is time for the pilots as a whole to stand up and use our resources to educate these young pilots. We can put these companies under if no one works for them, and it will force the recovery of this industry

I agree wholeheartedly with the first part of what you said...the industry IS shifting jobs, or more specifically, available seat-miles, to the regionals. But do you really think that pilots not taking low-paying jobs is going to bring a shift to this industry?

If they don't accept those jobs, where are they going to go to get the experience that would make them employable by a major carrier? And who will feed their families in the meantime?

If, as a young college graduate, somebody had suggested that you not accept a comission in the military until they dropped the service committment for pilots from 10 years to 5, would you have done so?

My point is that everybody makes sacrifices to become a part of this business. Military pilots do it by committing to a term of service and by putting themselves in harm's way. Civilian pilots do it by working long hours, often flying questionable equipment and at reduced pay. Of course, for those who can't wait but can afford it, there's PFT. No matter what route one chooses to meet industry minimums, the goal is to be employable by a reputable carrier at as young an age as possible.

We can't ALL go fly C-5's for a couple years, just to "get our hours up..."

 

[instructordude]

I agree wholeheartedly with the first part of what you said...the industry IS shifting jobs, or more specifically, available seat-miles, to the regionals. But do you really think that pilots not taking low-paying jobs is going to bring a shift to this industry?

If they don't accept those jobs, where are they going to go to get the experience that would make them employable by a major carrier? And who will feed their families in the meantime?

If, as a young college graduate, somebody had suggested that you not accept a comission in the military until they dropped the service committment for pilots from 10 years to 5, would you have done so?

My point is that everybody makes sacrifices to become a part of this business. Military pilots do it by committing to a term of service and by putting themselves in harm's way. Civilian pilots do it by working long hours, often flying questionable equipment and at reduced pay. Of course, for those who can't wait but can afford it, there's PFT. No matter what route one chooses to meet industry minimums, the goal is to be employable by a reputable carrier at as young an age as possible.

We can't ALL go fly C-5's for a couple years, just to "get our hours up..."

Thanks Dan.

 

[C-141/C-5]

Whisling Dan and Instuctor Dude are missing the point. I understand regionals are necessary, but there is a difference between SCAB/Bottom Feeder outfits and a well run one. MESA and Go Jet continuously bring this profession to the lowest in pay and work rules and until we step up to them then they will continue and others will follow suite.
I'm not blaming young pilots taking a job flying a RJ out of college. Hell I probably would too if I did not get this gig. I'm blaming the older pilots and the union guys for not educating these younger guys on respected companies who still RESPECT this profession. I guess the bottom line is I would like to see the older guys do more in the education process instead of b*tching about these companies and how they are taking jobs away from the Majors.

Instructor Dude you need to realize whatever company you work for feeds of listening to your views. They would love to hire the whole pilot force with guys like you , so then they'ed drop the pay and you would be like this ain't bad it sure beats a desk job. HAVE SOME SELF RESPECT

To answer your questions whistling dan
Yes, I do believe it would HELP turn things around if management realized we are a profession and will no longer allow them to treat us like crap, or they won't have the workforce to fly.

Part 135 jobs are out there to help build multi while developing piloting skills, and I never said there should be no regionals. Quit kidding yourself if you think you can feed your family with $20-36 an hour, and if you could manage what about all the time you missed from home and your barely making ends meet. McDonalds manager makes more and he's home every night, and yes there is room for him to move up and make more from within the company.

I'll get my twenty years in with the AF Reserves while flying for a RESPECTED MAJOR

 

[jayme]

I'm not blaming young pilots taking a job flying a RJ out of college. Hell I probably would too if I did not get this gig. I'm blaming the older pilots and the union guys for not educating these younger guys on respected companies who still RESPECT this profession.

If you want to blame the older guys, blame them for giving up their scope. The crappy Mesa job didn't even exist before United/Delta/US Air/America West MAINLINE PILOTS GAVE their own jobs away.

 

[jayme]

But I still voted NO.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

I understand regionals are necessary, but there is a difference between SCAB/Bottom Feeder outfits and a well run one. MESA and Go Jet continuously bring this profession to the lowest in pay and work rules and until we step up to them then they will continue and others will follow suite.

Yes, there IS a difference. The "bottom feeders" are the first jobs a young pilot can reasonably expect to be hired at after leaving the CFI ranks, while the "well run" regional carriers are the jobs they often aspire to in their quest for a major airline job.

By the way... Just for chuckles, I looked up the pay scales for 2 of the more common paths young pilots follow to get the experience required to be competitive at a major airline. based on 1,000 credit hrs/yr, here's what I found;

Career path "A" - Total committment, relocation required every 2-3 years (no commuters). QOL virtually "nil" for the first year, improving only slightly over the term of service. Frequent overnights away from home. No union, full benefits. 10-year training contract

First year pay - $28,000/yr.

Second year - $37,000/yr

Fourth-year - $53,000/yr.

Career path "B" - Relocation advisable, but not required. QOL varies, improving in the 2nd yr. Some overnights. Some benefits. No training contract-you're free to leave for a better job anytime you like.

First Year pay - $23,000/yr

Second Year - $60,000/yr

Fourth Year - $62,000/yr

Obviously, "Career path A" is the military, but it might surprise you to know that "Career path B" is Go-Jet, one of the "bottom feeders" you feel we should be imploring young pilots to avoid?

No matter which path a person takes, the first 1,500 hrs of precious "jet time" come at great expense.

 

[instructordude]

Yes, there IS a difference. The "bottom feeders" are the first jobs a young pilot can reasonably expect to be hired at after leaving the CFI ranks, while the "well run" regional carriers are the jobs they often aspire to in their quest for a major airline job.

By the way... Just for chuckles, I looked up the pay scales for 2 of the more common paths young pilots follow to get the experience required to be competitive at a major airline. based on 1,000 credit hrs/yr, here's what I found;

Career path "A" - Total committment, relocation required every 2-3 years (no commuters). QOL virtually "nil" for the first year, improving only slightly over the term of service. Frequent overnights away from home. No union, full benefits. 10-year training contract

First year pay - $28,000/yr.

Second year - $37,000/yr

Fourth-year - $53,000/yr.

Career path "B" - Relocation advisable, but not required. QOL varies, improving in the 2nd yr. Some overnights. Some benefits. No training contract-you're free to leave for a better job anytime you like.

First Year pay - $23,000/yr

Second Year - $60,000/yr

Fourth Year - $62,000/yr

Obviously, "Career path A" is the military, but it might surprise you to know that "Career path B" is Go-Jet, one of the "bottom feeders" you feel we should be imploring young pilots to avoid?

No matter which path a person takes, the first 1,500 hrs of precious "jet time" come at great expense.

Very well put.