A320 Job Offer

[Shaheen]

Here we go boys and girls...just been offered a job to fly A320 in India. I'm of Indian descent, born in the US, and have been flying HP Twin Cessnas in the US under 135.

ME time is coming up to just over 500. November date is offered for the ground school but the pay is very low. I won't go in to details but you can make more here flying for a regional as a new pilot than flying A320 in India.

First, please no negative stuff, I want to hear from you guys just your simple, straight, honest opinion. Some of my friends already think I am nuts for even having a doubt about takin up that job offer, but then again others have mentioned important stuff that might affect my personal life.

I have a wife, two kids, house, 401k, etc. Meaning, I would have to uproot everything and go there for the contarct period of at least two years. I am told that fo is logging close to 800 hours/year in the A320 so we're talking about 1500-1800 A320 time.

My plan is to return to the US after gaining some experience. What do you guys think about the prospects on returning with that experience. I want to stay in India for the shortest period I could, my contractual obligations, and return to the West Coast.

If I decide to stay over that period, the upgrade is running around 2.5-3 years...but, honestly, I don't know if can even handle 2 year.

Now, like I said, please no negative remarks. I am asking for your opinion as if what would you do.

Wife doesn't want to leave though, she suggest waiting for calls from regionals (applied to ten, no interviews yet).

One of my instructors is now flying for the same airline as a Captain and will be returning to the US next year, flying is good he says but quality of life sucks.

Fire away.

 

[HalinTexas]

I suggest you find a cheap divorce lawyer. If you take this job your marriage will be over.

 

[Shaheen]

I suggest you find a cheap divorce lawyer. If you take this job your marriage will be over.

Wife understands the situation, would rather live here, but has mentioned she would move with me if it comes down to it. On the other hand, she's more concerned about the 'prospect' upon returning.

That is where I need some insight. It's a time investment for good experience. Or is it not?

 

[HalinTexas]

By going to India, it will put you out of contact of US job opportunities. You'll have to move back to the US to re-begin your job search. No US employers will pay for your ticket to/from India.

You'd be better off biding your time in the US until that interview comes. Where have you applied in the US?

 

[Longhorn]

I suggest you find a cheap divorce lawyer. If you take this job your marriage will be over.

I hate to admit it....but halintexas is right. We dont know your relationship and how it is but the chances of making it through a move like this and keeping your marriage together are slim. No matter how you justify it your wife will always think that moving to india and flying for nothing was worth more to you than your family. Not trying to be negative, just realistic. Good luck with your decision.

 

[McNugget]

Longhorn,

What if he gets typed in the A320? Would that help his chances of getting on at JetBlue or Frontier (assuming they are hiring) when he gets back?

 

[CityBred]

Don't do it. The 320 F/O time is not worth it. Someone will call you. Just hold on. You are getting good ME time, which is what the regionals want. You didn't mention your wife's backround. If she is not from India also, you may develop a classic case of Aviation Divorce Syndrome.

 

[Networ-King]

Longhorn,

What if he gets typed in the A320? Would that help his chances of getting on at JetBlue or Frontier (assuming they are hiring) when he gets back?

A type rating over in India is not the same as getting a type over here. I have a friend working for Kingfisher and he seems to like it, but the pay is anything but low. Being of Indian decent means nothing if you have never been there. I've had opportunities in India and Asia ( In the left seat) and I was headed for Asia eventhough the pay in India was better. Just not worth it to me. Be very careful taking a job in the right seat as a contract pilot. There are companies in Asia offering jobs in the right seat and a type rating, you might want to check those out as well..... definitely a lot better then living in India JMHO. Good luck and becareful cause this kind of move sets the ball in motion for becoming a contract pilot..... not always bad, but the stability thing plays a big part for your family. Again good luck....


ps. Try pilotpointer.com and get yourself a six pack and a whole afternoon. The left side of the website has a ton of contractors looking for pilots. Fill out all of the apps you can and they'll be intouch with you.

 

[atafan]

This business is all about cycles. I believe that this industry, barring any catastrophes, is starting in an up cycle. I wbouldn't want to be out in India when the hiring cycle begins here, two years is a long time in this business. If you wanted to fly in India two years ago I would have said it might have made sense then, not now.

Most important point: Married, family men or women should not chase airplane jobs around the world. If your spouse was the adventurous type and really wanted the experience, maybe. I've seen too many wrecked lives by those chasing airplane jobs.

Stay here and keep on keeping on, don't give up!

P.S.

she would move with me if it comes down to it.

This is female for, I will do it but I will make your life a living hell for the rest of your life or at least until the divorce.

 

[Pecan]

Do your homework

Have you been to India as an adult??? The lure of "overseas, exotic assignment" is seductive sometimes. Be careful. Having flown into Delhi several times with FDX, I can tell you it's no picnic over there. There are some beautiful places, but the majority of the places I've seen look extremely impoverished!! The folks living in the "projects" here in the USA ought to go over there for a walkabout sometime. I think they'd quickly realize how lucky they've got it. It's NOTHING like the U.S. and I think your wife would be in for an extreme culture shock. Of course, it would give both of you an increased appreciation for the USA. My wife and I have both lived overseas, and we're grateful for the experiences. Neither country we spent time in was, however, a third world country. Think and talk it over. Continue to solicit information, but you and your family have to live with the decision.

Good luck

 

[kjokmo]

Are you seriously going to listen to the idiots on this board for career advise??

 

[Longhorn]

Kjokmo....

Nice comments. He asked for advice and all the replys have been honest opinions. My comments about the marriage come from experience with a few friends that did exactly what he is talking about. Both lost their marriages for the reasons I mentioned. I always would hope that a marriage is stronger than that but from what I have seen they have not made it. Nobody should take advice from FI only and run with it, but it is an easy way to feel out your thoughts and ideas...hince the point of the site in the first place. You are right though...I would hope that someone would take all inputs (friends, family, co-workers, FI etc.) into consideration before making a big move like this.

 

[Networ-King]

Are you seriously going to listen to the idiots on this board for career advise??

spoken like a true king of all idiots on flightinfo..... no insight at all to what the original poster wanted and sh!ts on anyone that tries to give good advice. Bravo, you are now officially a d**** b**. Now crawl back under your rock you tool.

ps. I've never been the spelling police on flightinfo or anywhere else, but for you, how about a dictionary for your next post? How's that for advice.

 

[atafan]

Are you seriously going to listen to the idiots on this board for career advise??

Until your post, I thought that this was one of the most helpful and insightful I've seen lately.

 

[kjokmo]

You guys are so easy.

Newtor boy..........like I really give a Sh1t if I use proper grammer on this board. Loser!

 

[CJCCapt]

You guys are so easy...

Kjokmo - you don't get it. That's not the point. Contribute in a positive way or GO AWAY. We're all tired of sh$t from guys like you.

 

[AMRCostUnit]

Going to India for 800 hrs a year of SIC time? Your are nuts. SIC time is of no use...I have 8500 hours of SIC time and 5 type ratings (only 1200 PIC; 15 year FO) and can't get an interview with SWA.

Have you ever been to India? Not a garden spot. You will ruin your marriage and your life for 1600 hours of SIC and not be any more competitive than when you left US soil two years prior. Family is WAY more important.

There's probably a training bond too, right? Run, Forrest, Run!

Unit
No Way Bombay!

 

[Stanky]

Don't Go

Unlike some of the other posters on this thread, I don't just know someone who lost their marriage chasing flying jobs around the world, I lost one myself.

The thought of the adventure and the "We'll just do this until we get recalled" crap works fine until you lose your marriage, your family, your money and your dignity.

God, I just wish I would have taken a job at Home Depot and stayed home.

I'm not kidding, I just don't think it's worth it.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[pipe]

A bit off the subject, but it sure seems like the original post pretty well summed up why we must remain "protectionist" about our US airline industry. If the floodgates are opened this peach of a job will be available in the US; and guess what? US pilots will take it to get the 320 time so they can get a good job - only there won't be any left.

PIPE

 

[hyflyt560]

If she is not from India also, you may develop a classic case of Aviation Divorce Syndrome.

Isn't it Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome, AIDS? I had AIDS, but was cured with another marriage.

Do a search for a poster on flightinfo...typhoonpilot. I believe he has some experience about foreign carrier hiring, QOL, etc.

 

[Shaheen]

Are you seriously going to listen to the idiots on this board for career advise??

Well, kjokmo, I must say that yours is the only post that I would disregard. I asked for honest, positive advice, and I have to say that’s what I’m getting here except from you.

In fact, all these months of prowling this board, above are (except yours) the most positive responses I have seen/read and many of the PMs are on the same wavelength.

Everyone seems to put more weight in ‘marriage’ and ‘family’, and I totally like this perspective: not uprooting family in order to chase jobs.

Well, yes, I have visited India as an adult, and as someone of an Indian descendant, I admit it’s an awful place to live. I’m very lucky to be here (Flying in America – AOPA Pilot, July 2005)! My wife is of American/Caucasian descent and kids are born here as well. She’s never been to India and I know it would be difficult for her. It would be difficult for me, let alone for someone who’s never been away from US/Canada.

Now back to the post, I am grateful for all the insights. Very educational and it gives me a different perspective. I accept that I am just about starting to look for a regional job and the opportunities would come. It’s just that flying a Twin Piston for 135 Vs A320 airline job…well, you see my point.

And also that A320 SIC is the same as CRJ SIC, I wouldn’t have known that, but thanks to all, especially to AMRCostUnit, for the good insight.

Keep it coming please. Thanks.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Listen to your heart when handling others. Use your head when handling yourself.

 

[Oh-ryan]

Flight time aside, I don't think it's worth it. I would have a hard time living with the guilt of uprooting my wife and kids to a country and culture like that only to have them to face it alone as I go globe-trotting 3 or 4 nights a week in the 320.

I think I would just go it alone and try to get back to the states as often as I could to visit them. The guilt would be much less and probably easier to live with. Lots of military guys do it when they get a sh!tty assignment overseas for a year or two. It's called being a "geo-bachelor". Not sure what kind of vacation time or jumpseat priviledges you would get, but it's an option you should consider.

 

[Charlie Brown]

I would not do it.

As was said earlier, SIC is SIC. It will not be worth the turmoil you, and more importantly your family, will have to endure. I know it is tempting because you are hungry for a better deal than your current gig, but trust me something better will come along soon. Best of luck to you.

 

[skengdon]

May I ask?

If he goes to India, and upon arrival he is typed on the 320. Would he be able to log as PIC when it is infact his leg of the trip(pilot in command) then?

Does it work that way here in USA, at regionals where the FO is typed, he can log pic time??

Could someone clarify, I'm clueless as to how it works.

thanks in advance, SD

 

[myq2u]

Don't Go!

Shaheen,

I think you should focus on getting pic time - NOT “bigger airplane” time. Whether it’s a BE1900, an Airbus 320 or the space shuttle - if it’s not PIC time then you are pretty much wasting your time there; especially a “low-timer” who does not meet the minimums for any airline. If you had 1000pic flying for a regional and wanted to get some jet time, I’d say go for it. At this point however, I’d say you’re going in the wrong direction.

Also, something else you might want to look into is the 5 year US residency requirement some US carriers have. Maybe FedEx and UPS pilots can chip in here but doesn’t FedEx & UPS require an “uninterrupted” 5 year US residency in order to work there? I might be wrong but I thought I read about that somewhere.

Either way good luck to you AND your wife!

"If he goes to India, and upon arrival he is typed on the 320. Would he be able to log as PIC when it is infact his leg of the trip(pilot in command) then?

Does it work that way here in USA, at regionals where the FO is typed, he can log pic time??

Could someone clarify, I'm clueless as to how it works."

Skengdon -

PIC time is when your name shows on the dispatch release and it is signed by you. It doesn’t matter whether you are typed or not.

Think about it this way, there are thousands of furloughed pilots out there working for many different airlines. Let’s say they used to be captains on the very same airplane in the past before they got furloughed. Now that they are FO’s they should not log their time as pic just because they have a type rating from a “previous life.”

Good friend of mine interviewed at UPS several months ago and he was asked about his pic time. In particular they wanted to know how he managed to acquire that much pic time since he seemed to be a fairly “junior” guy at his current company. He tried to explain that both pilots get typed there (flight options) and that in the past when he was an fo he’d log pic time on repo legs (part 91) and when he’s the “sole manipulator” of the aircraft, etc, etc.

Well, he didn’t get hired - don’t know if that was the reason but I’m sure it didn’t help.

 

[skengdon]

Skengdon -

PIC time is when your name shows on the dispatch release and it is signed by you. It doesn’t matter whether you are typed or not.

Think about it this way, there are thousands of furloughed pilots out there working for many different airlines. Let’s say they used to be captains on the very same airplane in the past before they got furloughed. Now that they are FO’s they should not log their time as pic just because they have a type rating from a “previous life.”

Good friend of mine interviewed at UPS several months ago and he was asked about his pic time. In particular they wanted to know how he managed to acquire that much pic time since he seemed to be a fairly “junior” guy at his current company. He tried to explain that both pilots get typed there (flight options) and that in the past when he was an fo he’d log pic time on repo legs (part 91) and when he’s the “sole manipulator” of the aircraft, etc, etc.

Well, he didn’t get hired - don’t know if that was the reason but I’m sure it didn’t help.

That makes much more sense now, for couple peoples 'pilots' say you can log pic like that(sole manipulator). So i'll glad correct them, thanks Myq2u.

 

[Charlie Brown]

There are a few different definitions here of "PIC". Actually, they are both correct from a FAR standpoint. However (and that is a BIG however), airlines are only going to count PIC time as the time you signed the release or if you are 91, your name was on the flightplan as PIC. It does not matter if you are typed, you were in the left seat, you flew the A/C, etc. It matters in the eyes of the company/FAA if something were to go down, your name is in the PIC column. For airline hiring purposes, this is the only way I would log PIC time unless you really want to take a chance and leave yourself open to question.

 

[airplane wizard]

Would flight time with a foregin carrier even "count" if you wanted to get on with a major in the US?

 

[2wheelz]

Regarding the question of what is considered PIC, at many carriers now, the application specifically states that PIC is to include only that flight time in which you signed for the aircraft. Also, the "SIC rating" that all FO's are required to have is a type rating. It is an aircraft type rating on your pilot certificate with a SIC restriction. When you upgrade to captain in the same a/c the SIC restriction is removed.