The new Lynx... Good or evil?!

[Cloud F9]

Hello all. I am fairly new to the group. I too am focused on making Frontier my home. I have been reading everything I can find on the Q400 situation, and how the F9 pilot group feels about it -

Thus far I have read it probably won't be a union? Are they looking to hire street captains as well? I hope Lynx won't be the modern "freedom" and have the industry frown down at the people there. Frontier has a great image that I hate to see get tarnished.

As for my situation: I live in DEN and would love an opportunity to get in on the ground floor flying the Q400 - especially since I have extensive time in that type and flying environment. At the same time I'd rather not have my name on a list..etc.. ya know?!

Anyone have more insight on how they are planning to start? I am awaiting Gary's update as well. Perhaps their might be some "flow-thru" to Frontier?!! Who knows!

I just read that Horizon is ending their contract with F9; so whats next!?

Safe travels! Thanks for your input.

 

[crashpad]

That's a good question and while the news is still relatively fresh, I'd be more than happy to offer my honest and unadulterated thoughts on this:

First, Lynx has nothing to do with Horizon. The AP news release stated it's just better economics for Horizon and Frontier.

Second, I'm 100% confident Lynx is not Freedom! How dare you make such a comparison.....ptuey....ptuey.....

Third, Lynx is projected to feed over 8 million new customers to the differnt animal the first year of operation. Whoever flies for them will be busy.

Fourth: I don't see flowthrough happening. I'll kung-fu any of my brothers who bring it up. F9 has enough nepotism as it is, plus we still want the best folks out there to get their interview, and it wouldn't be good for anyone if there was a flowthrough.

Lastly, if Lynx is 1/2 as rewarding as Frontier....you'll wake up happy everyday and look forward to flying!!!

 

[Cloud F9]

More...

Thanks Crashpad for the fast response.. >> I am in no means comparing the union busting move of the freedom thing- - I am confident that Lynx will be 1st class operation as its big brother. Just a little concerned since I heard the F9 pilot group wasn't to thrilled about it...etc.

As I keep my profile current with Frontier.. .and awaiting a call... I am very interested in learning more about Lynx as well. Any news on interviews, salary, etc?

Thanks for the input gang!

 

[F9 Buff]

Lastly, if Lynx is 1/2 as rewarding as Frontier....you'll wake up happy everyday and look forward to flying!!!

I can second that, I worked for Frontier in a few non-flying positions and I can say I enjoyed every job I had there. Great people all the way around from the GO to airport!

I have been waiting for something like this for a long time. I am just wondering if Lynx Aviation is going to be attracting people with prior 121 experience or if it would be too counterproductive for someone with a current 121 job to jump ship for the new kid on the block?

Obviously, the Captains that Lynx hires will have experience but does anyone have any idea of what kind of times will get an FO spot there? Maybe 1000/100? If the pay is higher than most regionals they can raise the mins to 1500/200? If the pay is even higher they can get FOs to jump from their current airline?

I know this though, the type of flying they will be doing within 500 or so miles of DEN sounds like it would be fun!

 

[F9 Driver]

The concept of Lynx is good.

Management’s execution of the concept is evil.

The comparison to Freedom/Go-Jet is spot on. The way management is going about creating a wholly owned subsidiary of the holding company that isn’t bound (according to Jeff Potter) by our contract should cause every pilot on our seniority list to be outraged. This is in clear violation of our contract and management is daring FAPA to do anything about it.

Until the scope issue is settled I would consider any Lynx pilot to be the equivalent of a Freedom/Go-jet pilot. I won’t use the term scab because this isn’t struck work, but I can practically guarantee that any pilot taking a job at Lynx prior to us settling this issue won’t get hired if they are fortunate enough to interview at Frontier.

You can bet that this operation will set or equal the low mark in the industry for pay and benefits. The only way this operation makes sense is if labor costs are at rock bottom. This will go for mechanics/flight attendants/crew schedulers/dispatchers/ everybody. If we were going to pay any real money we would have stayed with Horizon.

We either stand together and fight now or become management’s bitch, and accept whatever they deem we deserve.

 

[F9 Buff]

Until the scope issue is settled I would consider any Lynx pilot to be the equivalent of a Freedom/Go-jet pilot.

Great, that is what I was worried about... Any idea when scope will be settled?

I remember reading on the MyFrontier site a few weeks ago that any current employee looking to make the jump to Lynx should not make that move as it will be all at lower pay than mainline. I can't find it now but they seemed to indicate that all positions there would be lower paying. That kind of gives a hint as to the fate of Horizon as the JetX carrier.

So with that lower paying comment, I am thinking they will be higher than Lakes due to the capacity of the Q400 but less than a jet because, well, it's a prop?

So since they will be using seperate cheaper "mechanics/flight attendants/crew schedulers/dispatchers/ everybody" are they going to build a cheaper GO too? I have my doubts as to how seperate the two will be.

 

[F9 Driver]

We were close on scope when management pulled this.

Now - Who knows?

You get what you pay for sometimes. Horizon did a remarkable job as JetExpress. We had Mesa four years ago and their completion rate was pitiful.

Potter stated that there will be a seperate GO building and staff. Where is TBD.

 

[F9 Buff]

We had Mesa four years ago and their completion rate was pitiful.

I was there... I almost wet myself when I saw the -200 brought back from the dead to operate a few JetX flights because Mesa completely dropped the ball.

Wow, a new GO huh? My doubts about them being seperate are fading fast now.

 

[El Ocho]

Huh?

Fourth: I don't see flowthrough happening. I'll kung-fu any of my brothers who bring it up. F9 has enough nepotism as it is, plus we still want the best folks out there to get their interview, and it wouldn't be good for anyone if there was a flowthrough.

Could you elaborate on that just a bit? I get the nepotism thing, but I am not sure that flowtrough would equate to that, since Lynx hiring would presumably not be via Frontier nor require Frontier references... hence fresh blood. Plus, surely not all, or even necessarily many Frontier positions need be filled with Lynx pilots, so there's the usual quality/nepotism input there... And if you "want the best" and seek that out and get that into your Q400 pilots, why not allow them into the family eventually? I mean if you find something you like why not take it in? You get an opportunity to get to know them intimately through their time at Lynx, you could pick and choose with extensive knowledge of these pilots.

I just don't understand your notion that flowthrough would not be good for anyone... I mean even for yourself, or your fellow junior pilots, it could be good. Wouldn't the option to flowback into the Q400 and keep your pilot job in the inevitable bad times that always plague our industry not help you out?

You don't have to agree with me on any of this, but maybe you could explain the drawbacks of flowthrough?

 

[fxbat]

Flow-thru is bad, very bad. If you want to work for the main line go in the front door. I can personally verify how horrible eagles flow-thru was. Please do your family a favor by not making the same mistake

 

[GVJeff]

Flow-thru is bad, very bad. If you want to work for the main line go in the front door. I can personally verify how horrible eagles flow-thru was. Please do your family a favor by not making the same mistake

Flow thru is great. Isn't that when you're drunk when you get to the security checkpoint so you ask another crew to go in front of you while you sober up? You ca flow thru 8 crews statistically, and on the 9th screening, you'll be good to go.

 

[DashTrash400]

Heh heh heh...good luck w/ those Q400s, F9. QX has 6 yrs of experience with the airplane & can't hardly keep the damn things running. It's one problem after another, still acting like a new airframe... I can see reliability problems quickly cancelling out whatever savings were gained by not using QX with their well-paid employees.

Have fun!

</sour grapes>

 

[Master Shake]

One list solves the dilemma. Good luck to you Frontier folks!!!