Days OFF

[spitfire1940]

Hey Guys,

I'm curious how your companies arrange days off.

I work for an outfit that gives me five guaranteed days off every month. On days when I'm not officially off, but also not flying, I'm supposed to stay within one hour of my base. We do on-demand charter, but also a lot of 91 flying for our aircraft owners.

So generally speaking, I have around 15 days off per month, but I can only plan to do stuff with my family, or wander more than an hour from home, on five of those days.

The company schedules at least two of the "golden" days to fall on a weekend. We can request days off the month prior.

So while I usually have more than the eight days off per month that normal working stiffs can count on, the downside is that my schedule is totally unpredictable.

Is there a better way of scheduling or is this just the nature of the non-scheduled 135 beast?

Thanks for your input,
spit

 

[jagmagic]

welcome to Part 135 that is how it goes

 

[English]

Days off? What is that? :bomb:

 

[chperplt]

Days off? What is that? :bomb:

I think it's the 18 days a month I don't have to be at work...

 

[brokeflyer]

Either your on duty or your off duty....sittin at home waiting for the pager to go off is "on-duty"....only problem is...no one enforces it....the faa is looking to changing this right now. Soon part 135 will be like 91K.

Im soooooo glad i don't fly on-demand anymore....it's so nice not being tired

 

[smellthejeta]

Um, if you got 8 hours of "rest" in the crappy FBO, you just met the FAA minimum rest requirement. Congratulations! You're a real 135 pilot now.

 

[brokeflyer]

its 10 hours off....not 8....for unscheduled anyway

 

[t-bone]

Week on, week off. During our week on, we've gotta be within an hour of the airport. We usually are expected to be somewhat flexible on our first and last days off, in case trips extend or leave early...but if you let scheduling know you've got hard plans on those days off, they are really good about making sure you're where you need to be.

 

[charter dog]

By scheduling the "hard" days off, the company avoids the whole issue of whether or not the on call days where they didn't call you count toward your required 13 days per quarter of "free from all company duties". My first year in charter was with a company who simply counted days where there was no logged flight duty as "OFF" days. After 90 days in a row either on call or on trips, I found out I had been off for 15 days during that period. Absolutely slimy, but not uncommon and unfortunately rarely enforced or even challenged by the FAA. Seems they have bigger fish to fry.

Six days off the leash doesn't feel like much, but it's a whole lot better than nothing and it's nearly as good as it gets in most charter companies. I was in a better situation once but not surprisingly, it didn't last. Understaffing is the norm. So pound down those hours in the hope of a brighter future!

Best,

 

[spitfire1940]

thanks for the replies.

I kind of suspected we were all in the same boat--although my boat may be better than some.

Charter Dog, it sounds like they were abusing you guys. My schedule would bother me less if I flew more, but I'm only getting abut 30-35 hours a month, which is postponing my brighter future.

I've heard of companies that try to give pilots at least every other weekend off, but don't know of any personally.

T-bone's deal sounds a bit like being at NJ or CS--not too bad.

I guess scheduling is a reason most guys don't make a career out of on-demand.

 

[pilotyip]

We are on-demand operator and we have a high number of career pilots, average pilots has been here 6 years, average DC-9 pilot 8 years and average DC-9 Captain 10 years. I don't think many pilots in the their late 40's and 50's are going anywhere either. BTW Anyone who wants 91K as the new 135 crew rest has not read the NJ posts of a couple years ago.

 

[spitfire1940]

pilotyip,

how does scheduling work at your company?

does anybody know of a charter operator that actually sets a firm schedule?

Is it even possible in an on-demand operation? NJ and CS basically work on an on-demand basis and those pilots have a predictable schedule. Maybe that's only possible because of the volume of flights at the fractionals.

 

[pilotyip]

You bid your days availalbe to fly and wear a pager during those days. Except in the DC-9 passenger ops when you are scheduled 6 months in advance and you are given the next day's schedule each day before you fly.

 

[spitfire1940]

sounds like a good system.

your signature quote sums up the aviation career very well.

 

[Publishers]

I think that most smaller 135 companies struggle to find ways to schedule days off. I know we try to schedule these days as best we can to fit against scheduled maintenance days down.
Until you are at a place where you have more than one crew per aircraft, it is really tough when you are doing 135 and part 91 both and you have to get the total hours up where the two crews are utilized.

 

[G100driver]

I think that most smaller 135 companies struggle to find ways to schedule days off. I know we try to schedule these days as best we can to fit against scheduled maintenance days down.
Until you are at a place where you have more than one crew per aircraft, it is really tough when you are doing 135 and part 91 both and you have to get the total hours up where the two crews are utilized.

Pub, with all due respect, and really I mean that as I have given you crap before .... but that is your job .... not ours.

You need to tell the owner that it is about impossible to have a charter aircraft with 2 pilots. You (I mean marketing) needs to be realistic about costs and deferred costs and providing QOL for employees or expect to pay the consequences.

PS I do not envy you here.

 

[AA717driver]

Spitfire--You have a good deal by good straight 91 standards. I'd keep a low profile--AND, I'd keep my owner the HE!! away from other 135 owners! TC

 

[charter dog]

Charter Dog, it sounds like they were abusing you guys. My schedule would bother me less if I flew more, but I'm only getting abut 30-35 hours a month, which is postponing my brighter future.

Yeah, there was some abuses, and not only of pilots! But by golly we flew! I got seven hundred hours my first year. That got me to PIC and a better job that much sooner. These days, 24 days on the hook only gets me 15 or so days away from base and 35-40 block hours average per month. More sit and wait with less flying and shorter legs on average.

This decreasing flight hours trend has slowly developed over the last 5 years so that I seem to fly a little less each year while my time commitment to the company remains about constant. I think this is reflective of the overall effect of more new airplanes than new charter customers, resulting in less demand for each aircraft, especially older ones. The fracs are competitive with charter, but have created lots of new business. This is creating an industry wide consolidation trend whereby the smaller companies are increasingly forced to live on the table scraps of the bigger operators. If more than half of your trips are externally brokered or seconded by another operator, then you see what I mean. Companies which have enough internal demand from their own customers generally fly more hours per month, have less turnover and more stable scheduling. Those who rely primarily on outside brokerage tend to fly less predictably and require more schedule flexibility of their crews. This translates to more popups and more time on call with fewer "cherry" trips.

Like you, I feel that less waiting and more flying would be vastly preferable. But as Hyman Roth said to Michael Corleone regarding a hit on his friend Mo Greene in a scene from the movie The Godfather part II, "This is the business we have chosen." Mr Roth was simply pointing out that it comes with the territory. And so goes the life of the charter pilot. Take the bad with the good but always seek to improve your lot. The "good" companies usually set higher standards for their pilot hiring. They also often pay better and have more palatable scheduling practices. It takes time and effort to get there. I'm only about half way there and it's a daily struggle to keep my eye on the ball and not become a hopeless pain in everyone's rear. I know that Starbuck's is still hiring but I think I'll hang in here a while longer in the hope that I'll make it to the next level.

Best,

 

[spitfire1940]

AA717 -- you're right, it's not bad compared to some of the stories i heard. The company is also good about maintenance and duty-day hours, but lame on salary. But I'm looking for a reality check--which is why I started the thread. Thanks for adding.

charter dog,
you are totally right about the fact that we need to sleep in the bed we've made, but try to improve things at the same time.

Unfortunately, my company seems to rely quite a bit on outside brokerage. A lot of our trips pop up on the schedule a couple days in advance, but I don't get hit with many drop and runs. Consulting the master schedule at the beginning of the month is a waste of time, since it's OBE in a couple days.

Last year we were getting lots of business from NJ, but that has dried up since their new contract. I've got my eye on another company that generates most of its business in house ... which I assume stabilizes scheduling.

Of course, schedule is just one factor among many in judging a job.

It's a strange way of making a living, but I wouldn't trade it for a cubicle.

 

[brokeflyer]

Since i came to netjets ill never go back to a "regular" charter outfit ever again. Ill quit flying altogether. It's sooooo nice having a kick butt schedule and good pay.