You really want an MEI in the back seat? Follow-up to other post.

[legaleagle]

You really want an MEI in the back seat? Follow-up to splitting time three ways.

For the love of God. What happens when the sh)( hits the fan? An MEI needs immediate access to the controls. I remember my first multi training flight that I scheduled on a whim after some instrument training on a particular day. It was with a 17,000 hr, 55 yr old instructor, who owned his own flight school and 135. We flew a beautiful Aztec that was totally loaded with equipment and was on leaseback. I was still really green, only about 95 hours TT, and very eager to fly a multi for the the first time. The first thing he said, after getting me to read the manual briefly, was, "I don't care what you think is right, if I say my controls, they are mine!" I knew he was serious, and based on what I had heard happening when you lose an engine right after takeoff in a piston, I didn't want to test him on it. And he was going to do this from the back seat?

You have to be kidding me! In fact, I think the ATP Seminole crash about 6-8 months ago happened when two students were in the front seat, and the MEI and one of the student's dogs were in the back seat. They did a VMC roll I think. I think the PF had a multi-rating, if not both the PF and NPF.

This gets a little fuzzier when both PF and PNF in front are multi-rated, but still, are there employers out there that would hire an MEI with 100 hours of multi from the back seat? I have to think they would not. It is true that the regs do not explicitly forbid this, if the PF has a multi-rating, but it does seem to stretch the bounds of common decency.

Just use common sense.

At most you should have two multi-rated pilots, one flying safety pilot with a non-instructor in the back, or a multi-student and an MEI in the front, with a non-instructor in the back.

 

[flyifrvfr]

You mentioned an accident involving atp. when and where did this accident take place, I would like to read a NTSB report on the accident if one is available,

 

[A Squared]

NTSB report

At the time this happened there was a thread discussing it. As I recall several persons who claimed to have had experience with ATPs said that atps did not participate in triple logging schemes.
You might do a search for htis thread for more info if you're interested.

 

[legaleagle]

Just to clarify

I have heard good things about ATP, I don't want to implicate them unfairly. I don' think they do use the triple logging, but having an MEI in the back, with "his" intention of logging the time, seems pretty bad.

 

[labbats]

I've sat in the back during engine out reviews and Vmc demos while training, and never logged any of it. Aside from the gray area, it's a scary thing to be in back as that plane starts to slide on a Vmc demo. I couldn't imagine doing that with anyone less than a qualified MEI up front.

 

[Sig]

ATP does not allow instructors in the back seat. Since the crash at RDU (the instructor was a former roommate of mine), NOBODY is allowed in the back seat to observe if maneuvers are being performed, period.

FWIW, Josh was in the front seat along with one of the students, and the other student was in the back.

 

[bigD]

ATP does not allow instructors in the back seat. Since the crash at RDU (the instructor was a former roommate of mine), NOBODY is allowed in the back seat to observe if maneuvers are being performed, period.

I'm curious, why are they not allowing *anyone* in the back seat (I understand not allowing instruction from the back seat). Is this just to keep the CG as far forward as possible?

 

[legaleagle]

I would assume it is to reduce liability foremost. One extra soul increases liability a hell of a lot if found negligent. Second, it reduces distractions.