Wow, look at this crash.

[siucavflight]

http://www.break.com/index/airshowcrash27.html

 

[crash-proof]

Ukraine 2002

Wiped out a crowd of 88 spectators at a Ukraine airshow in 2002, worst airshow disaster to date. The pilots punched out ok only a fraction of a sec before impact..

I think some high brass in the Ukraine AF were given the boot after this one.

 

[banned username 2]

That is incredible footage...

 

[epic!]

wow that really sucks. doesnt the US have some law that prevent the crowd from getting hit at airshows?

 

[FN FAL]

wow that really sucks. doesnt the US have some law that prevent the crowd from getting hit at airshows?

Yea, it's called negligent homicide. But in order to get charged with it, two things have to occur. One, the actor must remain alive after the act. Two, somebody besides the actor, has to change their citizen status to cadaver.

With that in mind, laws such as negligent homicide don't really "prevent the crowd from getting hit", but they do provide the criminal justice system with the appropriate legal tool to deal with those who do and survive.

 

[WGP guy]

Yea, it's called negligent homicide. But in order to get charged with it, two things have to occur. One, the actor must remain alive after the act. Two, somebody besides the actor, has to change their citizen status to cadaver.

With that in mind, laws such as negligent homicide don't really "prevent the crowd from getting hit", but they do provide the criminal justice system with the appropriate legal tool to deal with those who do and survive.

So what happens if the pilot lives, but someone in the crowd dies because of the crash, but the crash was caused by a mechanical problem. The problem happened on a part that hte A&P recently worked on. Would the A&P get the charge or the pilot? Both?

 

[FN FAL]

So what happens if the pilot lives, but someone in the crowd dies because of the crash, but the crash was caused by a mechanical problem. The problem happened on a part that hte A&P recently worked on. Would the A&P get the charge or the pilot? Both?

Depends...

The acrobatic pilots on this forum probably know the FAA Administrative Law on performing for crowds. I don't do that stuff, so I have no reason to know it.

However, if a municipality got involved in a case where they wanted to pursue the actors for negligent homicide, all they have to prove is that someone died unlawfully or died of unatural causes, to get the ball rolling.

If the pilot of the plane that had a malfunctioning control surface was performing according to FAA and whatever aerobatic organization rules stipulate, then I would think he'd have nothing to worry about...just the mechanic. If the mechanic was in fact negligent.

 

[Eagleflip]

I think what Epic is describing is included in the FAA requirement concerning "directed energy" and crowd location. Obviously, this is a US issue.

Specifically, airshow pilots may not fly closer than 500, 1000 or 1500 feet (depending on the speed of the aircraft performing) to the crowd, with two exceptions --straight and level overflights and bananna passes, the latter allowing gradual descents and flight no closer than 500 to the crowd line.

That being said, no performer may perform any type of aerobatic maneuver in the direction of the crowd such that "energy" (in the form of aggressive maneuver, including rolls ) is in a vector toward the crowd. This includes rejoins or crossing passes, e.g. the Ramstein accident. The only exception to this last requirement seems to be the Thunderbirds maneuver with a fourship converging on a point, and I do not know what exclusion they are operating under, but I am sure it has been authorized by the FAA.

The only maneuvers that are allowed are straight and level overflights and high-g turns that take place away from the crowd, but briefly point toward them at the end of the 360.

 

[FN FAL]

So what happens if the pilot lives, but someone in the crowd dies because of the crash, but the crash was caused by a mechanical problem. The problem happened on a part that hte A&P recently worked on. Would the A&P get the charge or the pilot? Both?

I test flew a 414 after an engine swap and an A&P accompanied me on the flight. We did the best pre-flight you could do and needless to say, we developed an un-known engine roughness problem on the new engine and landed.

The mechanic exited the plane while I secured the cockpit and all I could hear was cussing, the sound of the cowling hitting the tarmac, more cussing followed by the sound of footsteps and then the crash of someone's tool box being tipped over. Followed by more yelling.

When I got out of the plane, I saw a puddle under the engine, at least 6 foot square. The new engine and turbo housing was stained avgas blue in color, and smelled like avagas.

In the end, it was the fuel lines coming out of the Bendix unit that were finger tight only and had come lose in flight and were spraying that engine and turbo charger with fuel. There's no way I would have caught that one on the pre-flight and you'd be lying if you said you would have either.

Had we exploded on that flight, would the mechanic who signed off on the engine be criminally charged with negligent homicide? Could be...maybe...possibly? That law is on the books in our state...and most likely in your's as well. I just depends on whether or not your local prosecutor is going to push it in such a case.

 

[FN FAL]

I think what Epic is describing is included in the FAA requirement concerning "directed energy" and crowd location. Obviously, this is a US issue.

Specifically, airshow pilots may not fly closer than 500, 1000 or 1500 feet (depending on the speed of the aircraft performing) to the crowd, with two exceptions --straight and level overflights and bananna passes, the latter allowing gradual descents and flight no closer than 500 to the crowd line.

That being said, no performer may perform any type of aerobatic maneuver in the direction of the crowd such that "energy" (in the form of aggressive maneuver, including rolls ) is in a vector toward the crowd. This includes rejoins or crossing passes, e.g. the Ramstein accident. The only exception to this last requirement seems to be the Thunderbirds maneuver with a fourship converging on a point, and I do not know what exclusion they are operating under, but I am sure it has been authorized by the FAA.

The only maneuvers that are allowed are straight and level overflights and high-g turns that take place away from the crowd, but briefly point toward them at the end of the 360.

Thanks for the aerobatic info. I know through participating in many public exhibition parachute demonstrations, that we have to dig out the rule books and re-visit those FAA regs and USPA guidelines, to insure that we are complying with them. Those rules are there to protect all involved with activities such as demonstration aerobatics and parchute jumps for crowds, but after the FAA/NTSB has their say, the state can prosecute anyone that pleases them.

 

[A Squared]

I test flew a 414 after an engine swap and an A&P accompanied me on the flight. We did the best pre-flight you could do and needless to say, we developed an un-known engine roughness problem on the new engine and landed.

The mechanic exited the plane while I secured the cockpit and all I could hear was cussing, the sound of the cowling hitting the tarmac, more cussing followed by the sound of footsteps and then the crash of someone's tool box being tipped over. Followed by more yelling.

When I got out of the plane, I saw a puddle under the engine, at least 6 foot square. The new engine and turbo housing was stained avgas blue in color, and smelled like avagas.

In the end, it was the fuel lines coming out of the Bendix unit that were finger tight only and had come lose in flight and were spraying that engine and turbo charger with fuel. There's no way I would have caught that one on the pre-flight and you'd be lying if you said you would have either.

Had we exploded on that flight, would the mechanic who signed off on the engine be criminally charged with negligent homicide? Could be...maybe...possibly? That law is on the books in our state...and most likely in your's as well. I just depends on whether or not your local prosecutor is going to push it in such a case.

Buddy of mine had a similar situation. In this case it was a oil line that wasn't tightened, and it didn't go quite as well. They were at about 10,000 ft on a test flight when one engine caught fire. They were able to put it down on a gravel bar and both walked away, so I guess it was a good landing.

 

[FN FAL]

Buddy of mine had a similar situation. In this case it was a oil line that wasn't tightened, and it didn't go quite as well. They were at about 10,000 ft on a test flight when one engine caught fire. They were able to put it down on a gravel bar and both walked away, so I guess it was a good landing.

I would have to say that inflight fire is one of my biggest worries being a freight dawg...number two after inflight collision with another aircraft.

 

[agpilot34]

wow that really sucks. doesnt the US have some law that prevent the crowd from getting hit at airshows?

The FAA regs discussed above pertaining to Aerobatic airshow displays only apply here in the US... this airshow was in Russia.

 

[FN FAL]

.

The FAA regs discussed above pertaining to Aerobatic airshow displays only apply here in the US... this airshow was in Russia.

Wow.

 

[rfresh]

So what happens if the pilot lives, but someone in the crowd dies because of the crash, but the crash was caused by a mechanical problem. The problem happened on a part that hte A&P recently worked on. Would the A&P get the charge or the pilot? Both?

That's what the insurance companies are for...!!!

 

[FN FAL]

That's what the insurance companies are for...!!!

You can get insurance for criminal defense attorneys?

 

[bobs98tlr]

This is only part of the video that i saw today on youtube.com I saw this crash on there and just about puked up my lunch. If you want to see gory then do a search on youtube and you'll see what im talking about.

Actually ill find the link for you guys but ill warn you right now its not pretty...The pilot made it out alive. Standby..

Here ya go...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rJG7m17zkWk

Or go to youtube.com and search "Jet crashes at stunt show killing people." Bad title i know but thats what the idiot put up.

 

[siucavflight]

link please....

 

[Huggyu2]

I believe both pilots were tried and convicted in the Ukraine, are got multi-year prison sentences.

 

[agpilot34]

.
Wow.

As always, there's got to be at LEAST one smart a$$ed comment in every post. At least that is a constant around here.