Would you go on strike?

[zeroline]

Im just curious who would go on strike tomorrow for better wages or a better contract.
Without a doubt, I would for wages. Although Im pretty happy with my contract.

BTW, I wanted to make this a Poll but coudnt figure out how. If anyone does, let me know

 

[CRJDog]

Im just curious who would go on strike tomorrow for better wages or a better contract.
Without a doubt, I would for wages. Although Im pretty happy with my contract.

BTW, I wanted to make this a Poll but coudnt figure out how. If anyone does, let me know

Well, to strike, I feel that my MEC and union brothers and sisters have exhausted every possible way to negotiate with management for better wages, QOL and other issues. If a strike is called I feel that I would have to stand with my brothers and sisters regardless wether if I believe in the reason why or not. In a union environment that we work in, CROSSING THE LINE IS NOT AN OPTION. You do not want to be labeled a scab for the rest of your career.

 

[bobbysamd]

Striking

I am not a regional pilot but I have worked in non-union businesses in which employers routinely take advantage of employees. Moreover, most states have at-will employment laws that permit employers to terminate employees for no reason (the converse is true; employees can leave at any time for no reason). Clearly, employers hold all the cards, and employees have no weapons with which to fight back and/or make employers play fairly short of quitting. So, I feel very strongly about unionism. Unionism is far from perfect, but it's the best system available for fostering equitable employer-employee treatment.

Regional pilots have never been paid fairly commensurate with their reponsibility. Their responsibility is at least that of pilots at the majors. Sure, I would strike.

 

[Knob]

We at Great Lakes voted 100% to go on strike a year ago. When it came time for us to get released, the mediator claimed that if we went on strike it would put the company out of business and he didn't want "That blood on his hands."
What good is paying union dues if the mediator doesnt do what he is paid to do, especially with a 100% VOTE for strike?

 

[NickASA]

Hey is it true that Jeff Pomeroy is flying a PC-12 now?

 

[skydiverdriver]

Yup. I did it once and would gladly do it again. Hopefully, though, I won't have to.

 

[storminpilot]

We at Great Lakes voted 100% to go on strike a year ago. When it came time for us to get released, the mediator claimed that if we went on strike it would put the company out of business and he didn't want "That blood on his hands."
What good is paying union dues if the mediator doesnt do what he is paid to do, especially with a 100% VOTE for strike?

The NMB is not in place to put airlines out of business.

 

[canadflyau]

The purpose of mediation under the Railway Labor Act is to foster the prompt and orderly resolution of collective bargaining disputes in the railroad and airline industries.

http://www.nmb.gov/publicinfo/mission.html

They (NMB) have not been prompt, nor have they led to resolution at Lakes. In fact they have not empowered the workers, as defined by the RLA, after exhausting its many lengthy steps to force the GLA management to the table, or suffer economic hurt. Whether the company is viable or not, a strike will have the same impact, flights will not operate. Lakes has had plenty of time (almost 5yrs) to find a way to increase revenues to provide an economic package that would be comparable to our peers, but they have not. If their business plan is flawed and doest not account to pay its labor appropriately, they will not be succesful. They have bid some cities twice now knowing that they need to generate more revenue. They primarily bid against Mesa, whom pays their pilots substantially more to fly the same mission as Lakers. So basically Lakes opts to continue service to cities (beat Mesa bids) on the backs it its employees by not meeting financial obligations within thier own operations. This contract is overdue.

NMB expertise in mediation and its discretion to determine when mediation has been exhausted, however, ensures that bargaining disputes rarely escalate into disruptions of passenger service and the transportation of commerce. Historically, some 97 percent of all NMB mediation cases have been successfully resolved without interruptions to public service. Since 1980, only slightly more than 1 percent of cases have involved a disruption of service.

It sounds like we would taint their stats and they don't want "blood on their hands"


MESA Beech 1900D 76hrs
FO CAPT

1 Year $18/hr. $0/hr.

2 Years $20/hr. $30/hr.

3 Years $22/hr. $32/hr.

4 Years $24/hr. $33/hr.

5 Years $24/hr. $35



Skywest EMB-120 75hrs

FO CAPT

1 Year $19/hr. $44/hr.

2 Years $27/hr. $46/hr.

3 Years $28/hr. $47/hr.

4 Years $29/hr. $48/hr.

5 Years $30/hr. $50/hr.



Commutair Beech 1900D 82hrs

FO CAPT

1 Year $18/hr. $30/hr.

2 Years $19/hr. $31/hr.

3 Years $20/hr. $33/hr.

4 Years $21/hr. $34/hr.

5 Years $22/hr. $35/hr



TransStates BAe Jetstream 41 (30pax) 76hrs

FO CAPT

1 Year $21/hr. $38/hr.

2 Years $24/hr. $40/hr.

3 Years $26/hr. $41/hr.

4 Years $27/hr. $43/hr.

5 Years $28/hr. $50/hr.



current GLA 1900 Capt 75hrs

1 Year 25.89

2 Years 27.19

3 Years 28.45

4 Years 29.83

5 Years 31.11



proposed with 7% at signing GLA 1900 Capt 75hrs

1 Year 27.70 ($2.30 less than Commutair)

2 Years 29.09 ($1.91 less than Commutair)

3 Years 30.44 ($2.66 less than Commutair)

4 Years 31.92 ($2.08 less than Commutair)

5 Years 33.29 ($1.71 less than Commutair)



current GLA EMB120 Capt 75hrs

1 Year 31.89

2 Years 33.34

3 Years 34.71

4 Years 36.27

5 Years 37.82



proposed with 7% at signing GLA EMB120 Capt 75hrs

1 Year 34.12 ($9.78 less than Skywest)

2 Years 35.67 ($10.33 less than Skywest)

3 Years 37.14 ($9.76 less than Skywest)

4 Years 38.81 ($9.19 less than Skywest)

5 Years 40.47 ($9.53 less than Skywest)



current GLA 1900 or EMB120 FO 75hrs

1 Year 15.30

2 Years 17.22

3 Years 18.36

4 Years 19.50

5 Years 19.50



proposed with 7% at signing GLA 1900 or EMB120 FO 75hrs

1 Year 16.37 ($1.63 less than Mesa 1900 FO rates)

2 Years 18.42 ($1.58 less than Mesa 1900 FO rates)

3 Years 19.65 ($2.35 less than Mesa 1900 FO rates)

4 Years 20.87 ($3.13 less than Mesa 1900 FO rates)

5 Years 20.87 ($3.13 less than Mesa 1900 FO rates)

found at: http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/lakerpilots/

 

[propjockey]

Just one correction to the info above. SkyWest EMB120 lineholders are paid an 80 hr guarantee (not 75).

 

[canadflyau]

Thanks propjocky... elevates further how poorly compensated we are at Lakes.

The 7% comparison given was the last offer the union gave the company that was "unreasonable," yet in parenthesis you can see even after the "unreasonable" proposed wage increase that we would have still been underpaid compared to the same size equipment at other airlines. I don't know that 7% would have passed the rank and file without some SERIOUS work rule improvements... even then still doubtful.

Almost 5 yrs no contract... hey Mesaba, maybe you have some secrets you can share about the NMB that would help us, it didn't take you so long after reaching an impasse (compared to us.)

 

[Captain X]

Anyone heard rumors of an XJet strike?

Yep.

I also heard a rumor that we're gonna get $100/hour for 5 yr. Jet CA.

And that we're getting all of CALs 737-500's.

And that we're gonna be the "domestic" wing of Continental.

And that we're buying Chautauqua.

And that Delta is buying us.

And that we're gonna fly RJs for SWA.

And that we have a west coast base coming.

And that there are EMB170/190s that already are earmarked for us to fly...it's just a matter of when we sign a contract.

Seriously though, we will petition the NMB hard for a proffer and following release if our ongoing negotiations are not fruitful this week.

Many (most) of us feel that it will take a strike, or at least the threat of one, before managment puts a fair and equitable deal on the table.

 

[Knob]

canadflyau,
hows the beechliner treating you? I heard a rumor that if you guys get bumped to fo, you can displace the e120 fo's?

 

[StaySeated]

The NMB is useless, and those lakes rates are sad. That being said, I would be careful what you wish for. To be successful with a strike you need to shut down the airline. I believe that the only regional that has the leverage to do so is XJT. Everyone else has been spread out and overlapped to the point that if one feeder struck, the difference would be covered by non-struck work flying by another carrier. I have never said a nice thing about a mediator, and I won't start now, but perhaps the "blood" he/she was referring to was the lakes pilots not the company.

 

[Publishers]

Bottom line

The bottom line is that a strike today is not a practical nor effective means of collective bargaining. There are two reasons for this,,,,, competition and lack of hidden reserves at airlines.

Today -- if you go on strike by that nightfall the competition is in and you are out.

Combine that with the fact that the average aviation company has no reserves to deal with a strike or even a slowdown, a strike can prove fatal to you even having a job.

 

[canadflyau]

"That being said, I would be careful what you wish for. To be successful with a strike you need to shut down the airline." -Knob

What we are "wishing" for is a fair and equitable contract.. not a strike... but I believe that a strike usually results in shutting down the airline.

"The bottom line is that a strike today is not a practical nor effective means of collective bargaining." -Publishers

This being just a quote out of a post that I shouldn't even respond to. Please read "Flying the Line" and/or take a labor relations course... Without the RLA holding the risk of strike/lockout at the end of an unsuccesful negotiations process(or failure to negotiate in good faith,) what would be the motivation. What history has shown is the desire to go to the final countdown in Sec6 (negotiations/medition) to find out about the solidarity of labor. Just like you stated in your post, replacements or job losses could be the casuality so the company will hope that fear will spread amongst the ranks and they will not have to come nearly as far (if at all) in the contract. Fear is a fantastic motivator, just as is the company willing to take a shut down? It is a door of risk that swings both ways (or at least is supposed to.)

Publishers, what are the "lack of hidden reserves" you mentioned?

 

[michael707767]

Regional pilots have never been paid fairly commensurate with their reponsibility. Their responsibility is at least that of pilots at the majors. Sure, I would strike.

A regional pilots responsibility is not the same as a major pilots responsibility. Just as a 737 pilot does not have the responsibility as a 777 pilot. And just like a 70 seat pilot has more responsibility than a 50 seat pilot. Why? It all comes down to liability. If an RJ goes down, you are only facing 50 potential lawsuits (or 70 as the case may be). A 737 goes down, then anywhere from 120-150 lawsuits, and for a 777, upwards of 300. Add to that the cost of the aircraft themselves go up with size.

This is not a statement about pilot ability or what you should be paid. But the fact is a pilot flying a larger airplane has more responsibility.

 

[ifly4food]

Im just curious who would go on strike tomorrow for better wages or a better contract.
Without a doubt, I would for wages. Although Im pretty happy with my contract.

BTW, I wanted to make this a Poll but coudnt figure out how. If anyone does, let me know

YES!!!

ASA negotiations are NOT going well. Time to make financial preparations, ASA pilots.

 

[TopGun-MAV]

how do you go about getting a union set up? tab really needs some better working conditions. i get sick of working for peanuts. i have a loan payment due soon.

 

[Publishers]

reserves

Flying the line was then and this is now. Big Differnence!

In the old days, the airlines had considerable " hidden reserves". Hidden reserves are the difference between book value and the actual value of the assets of the company.

During a strike or other slowdown, they could sell or convert these reserves to cash to help them weather the strike or work action. They gave this up when the fashion became to lease everything, thus not having the reserves to deal with setbacks in the market, labor actions, or changes in the governement regulations.

The climate has changed since "Flying the line" and much of it is no longer germaine to todays market.

 

[bobbysamd]

Pilot responsibility

A regional pilots responsibility is not the same as a major pilots responsibility. Just as a 737 pilot does not have the responsibility as a 777 pilot. And just like a 70 seat pilot has more responsibility than a 50 seat pilot. Why? It all comes down to liability. If an RJ goes down, you are only facing 50 potential lawsuits (or 70 as the case may be). A 737 goes down, then anywhere from 120-150 lawsuits, and for a 777, upwards of 300. Add to that the cost of the aircraft themselves go up with size.

This is not a statement about pilot ability or what you should be paid. But the fact is a pilot flying a larger airplane has more responsibility.

All pilots have the same responsibility in terms of safety, whether it be a 172 or a 777. Safety is the number one responsibility for all pilots. Not only do pilots have a responsibility to their passengers, they have responsibilities to their companies, to other aircraft, and to people and property on the ground. It does not matter if you have 50 or 70 people dead or 300+ dead, they're all just as dead as the others. Are the fifty or seventy who died in the RJ less valuable than those who died in the 777?

New regional FOs, who are paid $12K, have the same degree of responsibility as their majors counterparts who might start at $33K. You cannot tell me that the $12K regional FO is being paid commensurate with his/her responsbility as set forth above.