Work rules comparison: JetBlue vs. AirTran

[Beantown]

That's some of the best advice you'll hear.


CURRENTLY reserve is pretty cool. I dropped down to 14 days off EVERY month, flew almost every day, never needed a crashpad although I had one anyway (used it MAYBE 2 nights a month), and still credited 85-90 hours. Guys who lived in ATL made out like bandits, crediting 110-120 hours a month and were home every other night with 11 days off a month on average.

Thanks everyone.

Lear, can you explain they rules that allow you to drop 3 days (going from 10 -14 days off). Are there limits to this and/or a loss of pay?

Is there anyway to make the reserve schedule commutable on both ends? (JB tries to give you a late show day one and early on the last day)

Are reserves given a chance to fill there schedules with open time or is it all assigned?

I know this isn't the best time to go to either JB or AI but the fact is I'm going. The regional I'm currently at is not working and I have to do something else.

If I chose AirTran (I live in CLT so it is by far the better commute) I am hoping that the TA fails and I am able to get through training and reserve before another one is passed (assuming the next one will only slightly improve for the new hires.) I know that is a big "If" and that alone might send me to JB.

I am really looking for QOL (seems to favor JB minus the commute) and a second yr paycheck that will allow me to breakeven with the bills at home. Current second yr at AirTran and the 320 at JB will work but second yr on the 190 at JB is no good.

I find myself flopping daily between the two. Neither is a perfect fit unfortunately. I appreciate everyone's responses and I am sure that I will have LOTS of other questions in the next few weeks. Thanks in advance for those who take the time to respond to them. -Bean

 

[Longhorn]

Just curious, how is that a better commute. We have 5 flights a day to JFK from CLT on a mix of 320's and 190's. Our 320s have 5 potential jumpseats. 2 up front and 3 in back (extra fa seat now that we have 3 fa's). The 190 still has 2 jumpseats.

 

[CitationLover]

Just curious, how is that a better commute. We have 5 flights a day to JFK from CLT on a mix of 320's and 190's. Our 320s have 5 potential jumpseats. 2 up front and 3 in back (extra fa seat now that we have 3 fa's). The 190 still has 2 jumpseats.

well strictly speaking as a last resort a 4 hr drive could be made from CLT to ATL on I-85, which is sometimes less than the total flight time (incl getting to and from the airports in question).

that and you get to see the giant peach with a turd hanging out in Gaffney, SC.

http://www.gaffney-sc.com/Waterpeach.htm

 

[Lear70]

Thanks everyone.

Lear, can you explain they rules that allow you to drop 3 days (going from 10 -14 days off). Are there limits to this and/or a loss of pay?

There's a trick to this, and the trick is that you have a few hours on the 28th at noon when the monthly bid opens, allowing drops, to get your drop trips in before one of 2 things happens:

1. The other pilots drop days also (especially weekends) and they eventually hit minimum coverage limits on certain days and it's harder to drop, or

2. Crew Scheduling starts assigning all the open time to reserves and, by the 2nd day, they've already pre-assigned down to the "minimum coverage" limits for each day. Yes, they do this. Yes, it sucks for everyone except the reserve guys.

Limits: the contract says you're not supposed to drop below 65 hours. The limit that Crew Scheduling ACTUALLY USES is 53 once they get control of the monthly schedules on the 28th of each month. Yes, I know this for fact. No, I can't tell you why I know. Just trust me on this one...

Yes, you lose pay. 3.5 hours for each day you drop, but you make it back by flying on just about EVERY other reserve day. Reserves fly here, they don't sit. That's why I always credited over 80 hours as a reserve guy with 14-16 days off a month. Best reserve system I've EVER seen...

Is there anyway to make the reserve schedule commutable on both ends? (JB tries to give you a late show day one and early on the last day)

Yes, bid late reserve and DRIVE back and forth each week.

If you bid early reserve (0430-1630), you absolutely MUST come in the night before. If you bid late reserve (1000-2200), you can get home on the last day by either:

1. Fly on the last day finishing a trip. VERY few trips end too late to commute, most are done by 5-8 p.m. Since you almost always fly, this is the easiest way.

2. The contract allows for them to release you a couple hours before the end of your reserve sit. I always started driving and called them from CHA at the 2 hour mark. I could still make it back to the ATL airport within 2 hours of a call and I was already halfway home. Sneaky, but it was technically legal and it worked.

Are reserves given a chance to fill there schedules with open time or is it all assigned?

That's a bone of real contention around here that we're all a bit testy about right now.

Crew Scheduling is "Supposed" to leave open trips in Open Time for us lineholders to pick up, swap, and trade to our heart's content, but they don't, because the contract doesn't say "MUST" or "WILL". That not only pulls good trips we, as lineholders, might want to trade into, but also depletes reserve coverage WEEKS in advance of the trip, which makes it impossible for us to drop or trade trips later, because there's no reserves, they've all been pre-assigned, down to the "min coverage" level.

What that means is you won't get to pick the trips as a reserve guy, but you'll definitely be flying.

I know this isn't the best time to go to either JB or AI but the fact is I'm going. The regional I'm currently at is not working and I have to do something else.

There's never a perfect time to go. If the quality of life is just as good or better and the future is better, just do it, you'll be glad a couple years later when you're making more money than you ever could at your regional with an equivalently good QOL that you did.

If I chose AirTran (I live in CLT so it is by far the better commute) I am hoping that the TA fails and I am able to get through training and reserve before another one is passed (assuming the next one will only slightly improve for the new hires.) I know that is a big "If" and that alone might send me to JB.

Longhorn is right, the only thing that makes CLT a "better" commute is its proximity to be drivable. They have just as good of a commutable flight schedule in and out of CLT.

The T.A. will fail, the next one will be better, and RSV can be pretty short as an F/O, although as a CA it will be at least 2+ years.

I am really looking for QOL (seems to favor JB minus the commute) and a second yr paycheck that will allow me to breakeven with the bills at home. Current second yr at AirTran and the 320 at JB will work but second yr on the 190 at JB is no good.

2nd year pay is going to go up considerably, at least 15-20% here on the next T.A. (it was 13% on this one before the work rule concessions). What JB has over here (assuming they don't start retiring older 320's again and having neutral growth) is a quick upgrade into the Embraer.

AAI is looking at 5-6 year upgrades for newhires right now. JB is 2-3 years for the Embraer, another 2-3 years for Airbus. The Embraer CA rates are better than our SNB F/O rates, but you'll make almost the same thing at both carriers in the 1st 10 years.

I find myself flopping daily between the two. Neither is a perfect fit unfortunately. I appreciate everyone's responses and I am sure that I will have LOTS of other questions in the next few weeks. Thanks in advance for those who take the time to respond to them. -Bean

Good luck to you!

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

As for as the commute from CLT to ATL goes its not bad. You have AirTran, Delta, and Usair. First flight out 6am last flight out 11pm. I have only got hotel twice in almost 2 years. Also if you need to drive you can do it 3.5 hours. But Lear is right we need to fix the TA first. But as of now I really enjoy working here.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Hey bean JO still beating you down? go ccair!:beer:

 

[g159av8tor]

Thanks for all the good info!!!