WN buying some A gates in DEN....

[GhettoBeechjet]

OYS,
I hope with the massive profits that you guys are able to get a healthy contract and eliminate some of your outsourcing.

 

[On Your Six]

OYS,
I hope with the massive profits that you guys are able to get a healthy contract and eliminate some of your outsourcing.

Many 50 seat RJs are being parked as soon as they come up to more expensive MX checks. The Saabs have all gone away too. Profits are up, and things are heating up for more possible consolidation, so things could get interesting. The contract surveys have gone out and come back, so hopefully everyone is on the same page, including the union.

Here's an interesting article about passengers leaving AT for others as they lose the 1st class option:



Survey: Some fliers seeking new first-class options
By Kelly Yamanouchi
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Friday, January 6, 2012

As Southwest Airlines prepares to absorb AirTran Airways -- and do away with its business class and assigned seating options -- some AirTran passengers are seeking out other airlines, according to a travel agency network survey.

In the survey by Travel Leaders, the firm’s travel agents, managers and owners in Georgia who responded said they have AirTran clients who are seeking alternatives that offer first class or business class.

Although it was a small sample, with just 15 responses, all of the respondents said a few, some, a majority or all of their AirTran clients are seeking alternatives. Some also said Atlanta-based Delta Air Lines is the prime beneficiary.

“We feel that AirTran’s customers will come to love Southwest just as they have enjoyed AirTran service,” Southwest spokeswoman Katie McDonald said. “I think customers will come to find that Southwest offers just as much, if not even more benefits than our competitors.”

One big selling point: two free checked bags. Delta, AirTran and other airlines charge extra for checked bags. McDonald said Southwest passengers also benefit from not paying change fees.

Leslie Garner, director of operations for Travel Leaders Johns Creek, said her corporate clients have a lot of questions about the Southwest-AirTran deal.

“Taking away business class seats from travelers that are on the road all the time, [who] are road warriors, hurts,” Garner said. “So they are concerned.”

But she also said the company has corporate clients all over the nation who are happy with Southwest. “Because we’re in the Atlanta market,” where Southwest has never flown, “we don’t know yet,” she said.

Separately, the Travel Leaders survey showed in a larger national sample that Atlanta was the most preferred hub airport -- but also second only to Chicago O’Hare as the one they avoid.

“It’s funny,” Garner said of the dual result. Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport is well-liked by those who appreciate its efficient layout and wide array of restaurants and shops. But “getting from point A to point B at the airport takes a little time,” she said. (just give them a 30 min turn, and they'll be fiiiiiiiine....)




Looks like someone above FORGOT that Airtran is run by Southwest....????? Huh??? What??? That's NUTS....



Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[outerlimits]

Your rumor was whispered into your ear by the fuel truck driver in Saskatoon. Afterwards, you guys made out. Young love is cool for you. Put down the weed and start studying for your GED. Good luck duck!


Godspeed!


The OYSter

You are awesome. First you where at UAL now DAL. I can't wait for the day I fly for Delta It will be awesome when I can be like you and look down at all the low life pukes that are not flying for a Major.


For now I just tell everyone I fly for DAL, as the side of my aircraft says Delta.

Once again why the hostility ? We both work for the same company.

 

[Linedriver]

Outerlimits,

Respectfully, you don't work for Delta - you fly equipment owned by Delta. You fly for a carrier that takes flying away from Delta pilots, that is where the hostility starts.

Also, and I don't think I'm going out on a limb here, I don't see the regionals EVER flying a narrow body for Delta Air Lines. It would never get voted in.

 

[ASADFW7]

A warning was given to for the Saskatoon comment. The next time is a ban. Thank you

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

OYS your point is taken. This isn't 1997 where we (WN) can roll in with half the CASM of everyone else and run in on any market we choose. I don't take a WN win in any market for granted. We will lose some pax in the ATL O and D market to DL and we will gain some from DL. How that shapes up both numerically and revenue wise I won't predict. We can have and will lost in some markets to competition that is stronger and healthier than it has been in the past. I just hope the givebacks and furloughs are over for all of us industry wide. Good luck on that contract and I mean that. Hopefully your scope and pay rates recover. I would be happy to see someone else on the top of the contract hill for a while.

 

[waveflyer]

I'm sorry, "takes"???

Just how can a company "take" what needs to be "voted in"?
:smash:
Outerlimits is a delta pilot, you just don't let him vote, or move past 90-seaters, and have ensured his low wages by outsourcing him into a constant whipsaw model where if his airline gets too much $$, they'll be downsized and the next prop company with a certificate will be built up- all to keep all pilot wages under pressure- how do you still not get it?
I hope you're right that he won't fly 130 seaters, but until dalpa pilots are faced with a raise that includes releasing more scope, and TURN IT DOWN, I just don't believe you.
Can't change your past, but it's a shameful one- IMO one half step below scabs- in fact I can't say scabs did more damage to the pilot career than outsourcing- and if you represent dalpa on this, looks like you haven't learned a thing.

Outerlimits,

Respectfully, you don't work for Delta - you fly equipment owned by Delta. You fly for a carrier that takes flying away from Delta pilots, that is where the hostility starts.

Also, and I don't think I'm going out on a limb here, I don't see the regionals EVER flying a narrow body for Delta Air Lines. It would never get voted in.

 

[Linedriver]

I'm sorry, "takes"???

Just how can a company "take" what needs to be "voted in"?
:smash:
Outerlimits is a delta pilot, you just don't let him vote, or move past 90-seaters, and have ensured his low wages by outsourcing him into a constant whipsaw model where if his airline gets too much $$, they'll be downsized and the next prop company with a certificate will be built up- all to keep all pilot wages under pressure- how do you still not get it?
I hope you're right that he won't fly 130 seaters, but until dalpa pilots are faced with a raise that includes releasing more scope, and TURN IT DOWN, I just don't believe you.
Can't change your past, but it's a shameful one- IMO one half step below scabs- in fact I can't say scabs did more damage to the pilot career than outsourcing- and if you represent dalpa on this, looks like you haven't learned a thing.

He is not a pilot for Delta Air Lines, nothing personal. As far as the union vote and giving up scope, you can vote that way if you want.

I agree outsourcing has really damaged our industry so what do we do? Continue it? I would rather see those planes moved to the major seniority list. Won't change a thing with the current RJ pilots. They will still have to quit/get hired with a major - which is something they can do right now.

 

[waveflyer]

So he should quit, bc you outsourced ? Maybe hed have a job to get hired at if half your domestic departures werent Connection- You're blaming the wrong side
And I disagree. Outsourcing while furloughing is just as personal IMO as scabbing. And outsourcing while growing is only fractions better. Dal pa's guilty of both.

 

[Linedriver]

So he should quit, bc you outsourced ? Maybe hed have a job to get hired at if half your domestic departures werent Connection- You're blaming the wrong side

Well, if you can think of another way he can go to the majors without quitting his RJ job, I'm sure he would love to hear it.

I agree with you the RJ thing is currently not what it was intended to be. There is a need to 'connect' with the outer lying, smaller cities but it's out of control and inefficient. That is why our connection service is being reduced, by nearly 50 percent.

It would make sense to me that the majors would eventually have these planes on property and on their seniority list but it won't happen overnight. Delta is currently looking for a 100 seater to meet that CASM need.

I think this will continue. Airlines are looking for every way possible to gain a competitive advantage and outsourcing, within the industry, is inefficient.

 

[Linedriver]

So he should quit, bc you outsourced ? Maybe hed have a job to get hired at if half your domestic departures werent Connection- You're blaming the wrong side
And I disagree. Outsourcing while furloughing is just as personal IMO as scabbing. And outsourcing while growing is only fractions better. Dal pa's guilty of both.

Ok, just saw the rest of your post and now I'm confused. Now you say outsourcing is bad. A minute a go it was good. Which is it?

 

[waveflyer]

It's awful. For ALL involved. You'll never find a post where I said it was good. I said I don't trust DALPA pilots won't outsource larger airplanes until they prove it. So far, they've never failed.
And btw, connect small cities??? That's very 12 years ago---

 

[gobyebye]

"Although it was a small sample, with just 15 responses, all of the respondents said a few, some, a majority or all of their AirTran clients are seeking alternatives. Some also said Atlanta-based Delta Air Lines is the prime beneficiary."

That is some extensive reporting by the Atlanta Journal Constitution. 15 whole responses to base a report on, wow. Sounds like something thrown together at the last minute, urged on by some delta buddies of the author.

 

[waveflyer]

Btw- it's funny you haven't figured out outerlimits schtick yet.

 

[Linedriver]

It's awful. For ALL involved. You'll never find a post where I said it was good. I said I don't trust DALPA pilots won't outsource larger airplanes until they prove it. So far, they've never failed.
And btw, connect small cities??? That's very 12 years ago---

I think's its awful too. It would be better, for pilots and the airline itself, to hire young pilots into this equipment and move them up as they gain experience and seniority. The airline gets the benefit of a long term pilot and the pilot gets a future at a major.

 

[outerlimits]

He is not a pilot for Delta Air Lines, nothing personal. As far as the union vote and giving up scope, you can vote that way if you want.

I agree outsourcing has really damaged our industry so what do we do? Continue it? I would rather see those planes moved to the major seniority list. Won't change a thing with the current RJ pilots. They will still have to quit/get hired with a major - which is something they can do right now.

Yes I am a Delta Pilot. does the side of my aircraft say Delta( YES) .. I fly for Delta there for I am a Delta Pilot.

If my fellow Delta pilots do not like it, vote us all in as one group.

 

[Linedriver]

Works for me, I will say something to my alpa rep.

 

[waveflyer]

I think's its awful too. It would be better, for pilots and the airline itself, to hire young pilots into this equipment and move them up as they gain experience and seniority. The airline gets the benefit of a long term pilot and the pilot gets a future at a major.

Now we're agreeing. I just don't think airlines tend to view long term pilots as " benefits"-

 

[On Your Six]

Outerlimits,

Respectfully, you don't work for Delta - you fly equipment owned by Delta. You fly for a carrier that takes flying away from Delta pilots, that is where the hostility starts.

Also, and I don't think I'm going out on a limb here, I don't see the regionals EVER flying a narrow body for Delta Air Lines. It would never get voted in.

You are correct about that. Especially in good times (profits), it's hard to force scope concessions on anyone. Pay raises also occur during profitable times, but not scope relief.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[On Your Six]

OYS your point is taken. This isn't 1997 where we (WN) can roll in with half the CASM of everyone else and run in on any market we choose. I don't take a WN win in any market for granted. We will lose some pax in the ATL O and D market to DL and we will gain some from DL. How that shapes up both numerically and revenue wise I won't predict. We can have and will lost in some markets to competition that is stronger and healthier than it has been in the past. I just hope the givebacks and furloughs are over for all of us industry wide. Good luck on that contract and I mean that. Hopefully your scope and pay rates recover. I would be happy to see someone else on the top of the contract hill for a while.

I understand your point. There is no doubt SWA will gain passengers in the local ATL market. Taking away 1st class and even allnighter options for businessmen may lose passengers for you too. The difference is today's SWA is not the same fearless company with great fuel hedges that it once was in the early 2000's. Most of the employees at SWA have more longevity (more years of service), increasing costs via more vacation time, more sick time needed, etc as they grow older. In short, SWA is slowly turning into a legacy, and gobbling up AT in ATL has given some younger employees to the mix, but also equalling the pay eventually will turn that lower cost carrier into your higher cost SWA. That will not translate into lower fares forever. Look at oil prices today---$102 a barrel WTI. You just can't offer $48 one way tickets for long periods of time, and your hedges do not support that. Welcome to the legacies.


Godspeed!


The OYSter