WN buying some A gates in DEN....

[Linedriver]

So he should quit, bc you outsourced ? Maybe hed have a job to get hired at if half your domestic departures werent Connection- You're blaming the wrong side
And I disagree. Outsourcing while furloughing is just as personal IMO as scabbing. And outsourcing while growing is only fractions better. Dal pa's guilty of both.

Ok, just saw the rest of your post and now I'm confused. Now you say outsourcing is bad. A minute a go it was good. Which is it?

 

[waveflyer]

It's awful. For ALL involved. You'll never find a post where I said it was good. I said I don't trust DALPA pilots won't outsource larger airplanes until they prove it. So far, they've never failed.
And btw, connect small cities??? That's very 12 years ago---

 

[gobyebye]

"Although it was a small sample, with just 15 responses, all of the respondents said a few, some, a majority or all of their AirTran clients are seeking alternatives. Some also said Atlanta-based Delta Air Lines is the prime beneficiary."

That is some extensive reporting by the Atlanta Journal Constitution. 15 whole responses to base a report on, wow. Sounds like something thrown together at the last minute, urged on by some delta buddies of the author.

 

[waveflyer]

Btw- it's funny you haven't figured out outerlimits schtick yet.

 

[Linedriver]

It's awful. For ALL involved. You'll never find a post where I said it was good. I said I don't trust DALPA pilots won't outsource larger airplanes until they prove it. So far, they've never failed.
And btw, connect small cities??? That's very 12 years ago---

I think's its awful too. It would be better, for pilots and the airline itself, to hire young pilots into this equipment and move them up as they gain experience and seniority. The airline gets the benefit of a long term pilot and the pilot gets a future at a major.

 

[outerlimits]

He is not a pilot for Delta Air Lines, nothing personal. As far as the union vote and giving up scope, you can vote that way if you want.

I agree outsourcing has really damaged our industry so what do we do? Continue it? I would rather see those planes moved to the major seniority list. Won't change a thing with the current RJ pilots. They will still have to quit/get hired with a major - which is something they can do right now.

Yes I am a Delta Pilot. does the side of my aircraft say Delta( YES) .. I fly for Delta there for I am a Delta Pilot.

If my fellow Delta pilots do not like it, vote us all in as one group.

 

[Linedriver]

Works for me, I will say something to my alpa rep.

 

[waveflyer]

I think's its awful too. It would be better, for pilots and the airline itself, to hire young pilots into this equipment and move them up as they gain experience and seniority. The airline gets the benefit of a long term pilot and the pilot gets a future at a major.

Now we're agreeing. I just don't think airlines tend to view long term pilots as " benefits"-

 

[On Your Six]

Outerlimits,

Respectfully, you don't work for Delta - you fly equipment owned by Delta. You fly for a carrier that takes flying away from Delta pilots, that is where the hostility starts.

Also, and I don't think I'm going out on a limb here, I don't see the regionals EVER flying a narrow body for Delta Air Lines. It would never get voted in.

You are correct about that. Especially in good times (profits), it's hard to force scope concessions on anyone. Pay raises also occur during profitable times, but not scope relief.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[On Your Six]

OYS your point is taken. This isn't 1997 where we (WN) can roll in with half the CASM of everyone else and run in on any market we choose. I don't take a WN win in any market for granted. We will lose some pax in the ATL O and D market to DL and we will gain some from DL. How that shapes up both numerically and revenue wise I won't predict. We can have and will lost in some markets to competition that is stronger and healthier than it has been in the past. I just hope the givebacks and furloughs are over for all of us industry wide. Good luck on that contract and I mean that. Hopefully your scope and pay rates recover. I would be happy to see someone else on the top of the contract hill for a while.

I understand your point. There is no doubt SWA will gain passengers in the local ATL market. Taking away 1st class and even allnighter options for businessmen may lose passengers for you too. The difference is today's SWA is not the same fearless company with great fuel hedges that it once was in the early 2000's. Most of the employees at SWA have more longevity (more years of service), increasing costs via more vacation time, more sick time needed, etc as they grow older. In short, SWA is slowly turning into a legacy, and gobbling up AT in ATL has given some younger employees to the mix, but also equalling the pay eventually will turn that lower cost carrier into your higher cost SWA. That will not translate into lower fares forever. Look at oil prices today---$102 a barrel WTI. You just can't offer $48 one way tickets for long periods of time, and your hedges do not support that. Welcome to the legacies.


Godspeed!


The OYSter