Why would you need a standard lower than .04 BAC? USAirways delio...

[FN FAL]

US Airways investigating whether pilot was drinking

Associated Press

LOS ANGELES - A US Airways flight to Philadelphia was delayed Friday after a pilot was alleged to have been under the influence of alcohol, an airline spokesman said.

Los Angeles International Airport police detained the pilot before he boarded the plane, and conducted a test that determined he was not legally intoxicated, airline spokesman Phil Gee said. The pilot was released and will not face any legal charges, Gee said.

However, the company was continuing to investigate whether the pilot had been drinking because it has a stricter standard for its pilots than the legal standard for intoxication.

The blood-alcohol level for US Airways pilots is lower than the .04 percent limit allowed by the Federal Aviation Administration. That standard is half California's .08 percent legal limit for driving.

"The pilot was taken off-duty," Gee said. "He certainly didn't go anywhere near an aircraft."

The incident started when someone in the airport complained that the pilot smelled of alcohol.

The pilot's name and other information were not released.
Airport police referred calls to the airline.

The scheduled 1:45 p.m. flight to Philadelphia left Los Angeles two hours late.

 

[BushwickBill]

Maybe the higher standards are in refrence to the 8 hours bottle to throttle (or was it 8 feet bottle to throttle), or it could be to the real hang up in the reg: the magic word intoxicated. If you gave a general statement like intoxicated to a lawyer he could stretch its meaning to lock away every pilot in the country.

 

[A Squared]

Why a higher standard? Why not? would you feel warm and fuzzy about a pilot who quit drinking 8 hours ago, yet still had a BAC of 0.035%? That would be legal, but how competent would he be? I'm thinking; not very. using one of those little BAC calculators, I find that 0.04% is 3 beers in hte last hour, for somone my weight. SO ignoring hte 8 hours, I could be under the legal BAC limit with 2-1/2 beers in hte last hour. should I go flying? Probably not. I don't see anything too mysterious about an airline chosing to hold thier pilots to a higher standard. I understand that 12 hours bottle to throttle is fairly common as a company policy, and 24 hours is not unheard of. Imposing a lower BAC limit doesn't seem to me to be too much of a stretch.

 

[rettofly]

Maybe the higher standards are in refrence to the 8 hours bottle to throttle (or was it 8 feet bottle to throttle), or it could be to the real hang up in the reg: the magic word intoxicated. If you gave a general statement like intoxicated to a lawyer he could stretch its meaning to lock away every pilot in the country.

IMHO, the regulation is absurd.

While it is legal to show up for duty with .04 and fly with .02 as long as none of the alcohol was consumed within 8 hours of flight, it is a violation to have a sip of any alcoholic beverage within eight hours even if it is fully metabolized before flight (BAC 0.00).

Thus, it is legal to fly with a monumental hangover as long as it was acquired more than 8 hours before flight, but not legal to fly with a clear head if any alcohol was consumed less than eight hours before flight.

I think the regulation should be changed to require 8 hours and 0.00 BAC.

 

[DiamondFlyer]

0.00? You'd better be scrubbing your teeth with baking soda.

 

[mar]

My bottle to throttle rule

My employer says they'll fire me with a BAC 0.02% or greater.

Forget about eight hours. I don't drink the day before I fly.

 

[cezzna]

I read once that the .04% came from diabetics. If you have diabetes, your body creates alcohol. Thus it is possible for a borderline diabetic to blow a low number on a BAC test with no drinking involved.

 

[Axel]

But isn't diabetes a disqualifying condition for a medical certificate?

 

[WMUchickenhawk]

I think its only Diabetes that is treated with Insulin. If it is controlled by diet, you are Ok.

 

[rettofly]

0.00? You'd better be scrubbing your teeth with baking soda.

I read once that the .04% came from diabetics. If you have diabetes, your body creates alcohol. Thus it is possible for a borderline diabetic to blow a low number on a BAC test with no drinking involved.

Good point, guys. Wasn't thinking about diabetis and other possible causes.

My concern was the possibility of legally flying with a hangover .

 

[GogglesPisano]

would you feel warm and fuzzy about a pilot who quit drinking 8 hours ago, yet still had a BAC of 0.035%? That would be legal, but how competent would he be?

Far more competent than someone at the end of a 16-hr duty day (impairment equivalent to 1 beer) or someone who was on a "continuous duty overnight," or someone on "reduced rest."

 

[A Squared]

Far more competent than someone at the end of a 16-hr duty day (impairment equivalent to 1 beer) or someone who was on a "continuous duty overnight," or someone on "reduced rest."

Excellent point, one I've made before. The FAA doesn't want to do anything but stick it's head in the sand and pretend the issue isn't there.

WE get all excited about alcohol (and not unreasonabley) but the effecs of fatigue are ignored. The only disagreement I have with what you wrote is that you have grossly underestimated the effects. According to researchers at the university of New South Wales, 17 hours of *wakefulness* (not duty) hours since you got out of bed gives you an inpairment eqivelent to a BAC of 0.08%, which is *much* more than 1 beer. That's about a 6 pack in 2 hours hours for somone my size. That's over the legal limit for driving in all states now. Yet it's perfectly legal to fly that way....as long as the impairment is a result of the airline's scheduling, and not your drinking.

 

[LarryinTN]

The reason for the 8 hour rule and 0.04% rule is not because 0.03% or 8+01 is safe, it's because it's easier to prove less than 8 hours or 0.04% or more than it is to prove "impairment" without those standards.

If someone tests over 0.04%, or had drank within 8 hours, then there's no need to go any further to prove impairment. If it's been over 8 hours, and the BAC is under 0.04%, then they have to prove impairment via some other means which will be harder to do in court.

 

[NorthShore]

My employer says they'll fire me with a BAC 0.02% or greater.

Forget about eight hours. I don't drink the day before I fly.

Well said.

Better yet. How about you are a licensed professional responsable for millions of dollars worth of property and entrusted with the lives of the public. If you can't step away from the bar, perhaps another line of less demanding work would be in order. Reduced rest? Long days? Good points to be sure, but the boss isn't making you suck back that last beer, so stop changing the subject. Save the alcohol for your time off. You'll be a better pilot for it.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Well said.

Reduced rest? Long days? Good points to be sure, but the boss isn't making you suck back that last beer, so stop changing the subject. .

No, but he is making you fly on reduced rest, 16 hours ...

The end result is the same.

 

[A Squared]

If you can't step away from the bar, perhaps another line of less demanding work would be in order. Reduced rest? Long days? Good points to be sure, but the boss isn't making you suck back that last beer, so stop changing the subject.

Nobody, not one single poster, is trying to argue for flying with any level of alcohol impairment, but you're attempting for some reason to read that into somone's words. The fatigue issue was mentioned as a realted issue of impariment, not as an attempt to change the subject or the shift focus.

 

[NorthShore]

Nobody, not one single poster, is trying to argue for flying with any level of alcohol impairment, but you're attempting for some reason to read that into somone's words. The fatigue issue was mentioned as a realted issue of impariment, not as an attempt to change the subject or the shift focus.

Flown the same places and stayed in the same hotels and sat in the same bars.

I know better and so do you. Forgive me if I jumped up on an availible soapbox inappropriately, but some of these guys..........

 

[A Squared]

Flown the same places and stayed in the same hotels and sat in the same bars.

I know better and so do you. Forgive me if I jumped up on an availible soapbox inappropriately, but some of these guys..........

Yeah, no argument that there are guys out there that are pretty irresponsible, we all know them. Nothing wrong with soapboxes, I've got a couple of favorites. Fatigue is one.

 

[FN FAL]

Nothing wrong with soapboxes...

Hahaha...thanks to the internet we can have a soap box derby 24/7!

Yes, I agree on fatigue being an impairment issue. Among many others.

 

[siucavflight]

IMHO, the regulation is absurd.
Thus, it is legal to fly with a monumental hangover as long as it was acquired more than 8 hours before flight, but not legal to fly with a clear head if any alcohol was consumed less than eight hours before flight.

quote]
Not true, the reg has three parts
1. Nothing over .04
2. Nothing within the last 8 hours.
3. Not under the influence
The FAA will consider a hangover as being under the influence.