Why Won't Delta Try?

[Hamfighter]

Here's my view. Southwest is in business for the for the benefit of employees and the customers. Delta is in business for the enrichment of a handful of executives.

Please, please tell me I'm wrong.

Delta's solution for losing money...concentrate on first class and international. Let Southwest have domestic. Close bases (ie, Dallas) - essentially give up rather than compete.

Farm out over 50% of flying to regionals (someone is making tena of millions on that).

Point is, Southwest makes money, pays much more, and has no regionals. What happens to all the money we "save" by utilizing small planes and paying less?

I just need to know someone is TRYING and there is HOPE.

Honestly, not flambaiting...I've got another 25 years to give Delta, and I don't want to throw it away.

 

[puddlejumper101]

holy cow...I never thought the day would come when a Delta pilot would be humble on these boards. Don't ask the General or OYS because according to them Delta will rule the world.

All joking aside we are just pawns at the mercy of management no matter who we work for. Best of luk to all of us.

 

[GoodTimes]

This ought to be just grand. The duo in 3...2...1

 

[General Lee]

Here's my view. Southwest is in business for the for the benefit of employees and the customers. Delta is in business for the enrichment of a handful of executives.

Please, please tell me I'm wrong.

Delta's solution for losing money...concentrate on first class and international. Let Southwest have domestic. Close bases (ie, Dallas) - essentially give up rather than compete.

Farm out over 50% of flying to regionals (someone is making tena of millions on that).

Point is, Southwest makes money, pays much more, and has no regionals. What happens to all the money we "save" by utilizing small planes and paying less?

I just need to know someone is TRYING and there is HOPE.

Honestly, not flambaiting...I've got another 25 years to give Delta, and I don't want to throw it away.

Hmmm, where to start? Do you expect Delta to just hand the pilots a contract now, a year before the ammendable date? With high oil now, that may not be the best idea. DALPA got screwed during our joint contract because oil was at $130 a barrel then. DL still plans to make money this year overall, but when you have a large base in Japan, and it has an earthquake and nuclear reactor stuff is still being worked on, it can't help. It is slowly getting better there, and DL yeilds are going up as we speak there. If an earthquake hit SFO and had the same damage, a lot of us would be hurting more than the others. SWA has an OAK base, along with VA at SFO with UAL. They would all be hurting more than DL at that point. That is the way it goes.

DL executives do make big bucks. Their pay is back to pre-BK levels. They know this, and they know that the pilots are not. It won't be a cake walk, but when the Airtran guys get a huge raise, and the Delta execs always used them as an example as to why they couldn't justify a huge raise for the pilots, it can only help the pilots' cause.

Southwest has increased their domestic presence, because that is all they could do. Their own management wanted Volaris and Westjet to do their international flying at one time. In comes Airtran with some INTL experience, and they will start more of that type of flying. But, very doubtful they will go big INTL with bigger planes. GUP may dream of that, but as soon as SWA announces that, Easyjet and Ryanair will beat them to the punch, and beat them up. They own Europe for the budget travellers.

DL Domestic was downsized with RJs just prior to BK, and more after BK. Fred Greed thought businessmen wanted frequency, which in reality they wanted legroom and a place to work. Since DL got new management, they have moved more domestic into the framework, primarily because we got a few more types of planes that could be useful on shorter segments. Before NWA, the smallest plane we had recently was the MD88, and then the 737-700. Those 737s were launched to Central American routes and SNA, and that was that. Now DL has DC9s and A319s also doing domestic stuff out of ATL, and seeing places like Flint (my favorite), Grand Rapids, and other places mainline abandoned long ago. MD90s will start to fill in for the DC9s starting next year (not this year as previously planned), and RJs are leaving the fleet at a fast pace now, thanks to oil and Comair going away. We announced 12 more E175s for Compass, but most of that fell through. As I stated Comair will be shrunk to 44 total planes, which is amazing. The NYC Shuttle got A319s, which fit that market better. Prior management put certain planes on routes that couldn't sustain them. Like Song 757s on East Coast North and South routes. Those planes were too big. Now with the mixed fleet, A319s, 737-800s, and MD88s are flying a lot of those routes, and are probably better suited. There were 737-800s doing JFK to LAX against UAL and AA 767s. That didn't last. Things are being moved around to produce the most revenue. Still, this airline is a Spring and Summer airline, and those are the two quarters that make the most money, and carry DL throughout the year. It has always been that way. Do I think DL uses too many RJs? Sure I do. Is that number getting smaller? Yes. High Oil is taking care of that problem. Did Delta give up on DFW? Maybe. Airlines give up on hubs and create new ones, through mergers too. SEA is an example of that, now a fairly large crew base. And I don't see DALPA ever giving in to SCOPE again, since the last time was BK, and prior to that was a lesson I think everyone learned. I have heard rumors of C-Series planes being looked at in the 100 seat range, and if Delta wants to fly planes that size to smaller markets, they will have to go to Dalpa and get a pay rate for mainline pilots. Everyone left at DL, from NWA to DL premerger, have seen the distruction that RJs have brought to the network, and again I don't see them voting anything away again. Pre-BK there were a lot of pilots at DL that were so far out of the loop, doing INTL only for 20 years, that they didn't care. They are mostly gone now. That is the truth.

So who is trying to help that problem you were talking about? I have confidence in DL management. The guys in charge of route management have found great places for the different types of planes, and as stated RJs are being parked. But, there are some contracts that will have to run their course, and then maybe we'll see if they are renewed. We would love to see an all mainline fleet someday, and maybe we can aim for the start of that during these contract talks starting next year. I think DL pilots will get a big raise to match or beat SWA's (thanks to Airtran getting it too), and there will be improvements in other areas, including better scope protection. Yes, there was a loss this last quarter, and there was one almost the same size during the same one last year. Then Delta went on to have a huge Q2 and 3, and even though fuel is higher now, fare hikes have also stuck. When Asia stuff rebounds soon, DL will be in better shape, and analysts and DL management still predict a profit for the full year. It's amazing Q1 wasn't worse, and Wall Street thought the same today. And wages and benefits have to negotiated, which will happen sooner than later, and then pilots at Southwest (especially ones in the bottom after their SLI) will be looking at DL's retirmement numbers and movement and will start throwing apps DL's way. Stagnation there will be huge thanks to their lower scheduled retirement numbers. That's a fact, ask GUP.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[LearLove]

essentially give up rather than compete.

Farm out over 50% of flying to regionals (someone is making tena of millions on that).

hey hey hey, don't be stealing our business plan.

 

[GoodTimes]

On Your Sixth......you're up

 

[On Your Six]

On Your Sixth......you're up

I heard that from your Mom yesterday.


OYS

 

[GuppyWN]

I heard that from your Mom yesterday.


OYS

........... to let you know the restraining order had gone filed.

Gup

 

[DieselDragRacer]

........... to let you know the restraining order had gone filed.

Gup

 

[DonVerita]

General...that was a very informative short term history lesson. I agree with you on 99% of it.

However, with AirTran leading the way for Int'l Ops for SWA, I think you will see a large increase in international flying for the new merged carrier. Furthermore, I also think you will see an announcement of a 3rd fleet type soon, possibly at the Paris Air Show this summer. Could be a version of the 787 or could be Boeing's new design, (tentatively named the 797). My bet is on the latter.

Delta is a great carrier. I commute on them 50% of the time. Good infrastructure, customer service, and professional appearance. Now if you could just get those ATL gate agents to understand that a Passport is not required when occupying a cabin seat for Jumpseating purposes; only sitting on the actual cockpit jumpseat requires that.

 

[canyonblue]

On Your Sixth......you're up

Those two are so predictable, it's really frickin sad.

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

I heard that from your Mom yesterday.


OYS

Yeah, She works at the "Clinic" and you were there for "Your Treatment"

Whether it was "In your Six", "Up your Six", or "On Your Six", it's not gonna go away with topical cream!

Good Luck!

KBB

 

[Scope out RJ's]

I heard that from your Mom yesterday.


OYS

You, then the entire Lakers team.:laugh::laugh:

 

[Tanker Clown]

Another day, another delusion about the greatness of Delta for the General. Face it General, you may have started at a good airline with good pay, but now you work for a low paying, money hemmoraging feeder for Com Air. People now ditch Deltta and their great international overnights to fly 737s and overnight in LBB. You can't blame them. It's just the rats jumping off the sinking ship.

 

[General Lee]

........... to let you know the restraining order had gone filed.

Gup

He was the NEXT one to get a restraining order? Paranoid!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[waveflyer]

I agree w/ most of what Gen said- of all the legacies I'd choose to work at delta- but it is still very sad how much more DAL execs make than SWAs. Another example of the ridiculous transfer of wealth from labor and the middle class to those at the top that is killing this country. Not capitalism: it's abuse of power and cronyism.

I hope that Gen is right and a new crowd who gets it is in charge who have learned scope lessons and ready to get a raise- time will tell

Good luck

 

[General Lee]

Another day, another delusion about the greatness of Delta for the General. Face it General, you may have started at a good airline with good pay, but now you work for a low paying, money hemmoraging feeder for Com Air. People now ditch Deltta and their great international overnights to fly 737s and overnight in LBB. You can't blame them. It's just the rats jumping off the sinking ship.

Thanks TANKY. Do I dare venture into even trying to explain to you what has happen? Ah heck, why not? Things are not as bad as you say, of course. DL pilots are paid fairly well, but many things need to changed for the better in upcoming contract talks. Now that Airtran will be included in Southwest's great pay scheme, it will undoubtably help the cause. Comair will actually be reduced to only 44 total planes, so that isn't true. It was a poor quarter, but again last year had almost the same result, and the rest of the year was profitable. The first quarter of this year had some TERRBILE things happen, like the Japan earthquake and resulting catastrophies, and ice storms in ATL that hurt Airtran and Delta. It's amazing the loss wasn't even worse. So far I don't think many Delta pilots have left for Southwest, primarily since the merger with Airtran will put anyone hired after the announcement at the bottom of a stagnate list. Even when you eventually get your buddies to get you onto SWA, you too will be at the bottom, doing plenty of LBB or Tunica layovers. By that time the pay will be equal or better at Delta most likely, and you will be left with Ty or Gup as your Captain, sitting at the bar, ordering Wild Turkey, and talking about your exciting days as lead of the Cafeteria cleaners in Okinawa. Enjoy that!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Tanker Clown]

Ha ha ha! Delta pay same as SWA! You guys will take pay cuts (again) before that happens. BTW, I have 3 friends who left Delta to go to SWA. They did say they enjoyed the Vinice overnights, but they go to work to make money. And making money isn't what Delta pilots (or the while company) is good at. Maybe if they could have gotten on at Song it would have been a different situation.

 

[General Lee]

I agree w/ most of what Gen said- of all the legacies I'd choose to work at delta- but it is still very sad how much more DAL execs make than SWAs. Another example of the ridiculous transfer of wealth from labor and the middle class to those at the top that is killing this country. Not capitalism: it's abuse of power and cronyism.

I hope that Gen is right and a new crowd who gets it is in charge who have learned scope lessons and ready to get a raise- time will tell

Good luck

Wave,

Thanks for the good response. I know exactly what you mean, and it is amazing GK doesn't take in a lot more cash. I have seen the comparisons. He deserves more. I also continue to say that your contract is FANTASTIC, and I hope that we try to emulate it after the DALPA contract talks. In all fairness, I do actually like the current Delta management, salary notwithstanding. I think they are sharp, and they do have a lot on their hands with the Japan stuff going on, yeilds going up and down in the Atlantic, and then the domestic fight. This is a true Worldwide airline, and that means a lot of fronts to battle, including employee contract talks upcoming. I think they know that they have gotten a "good deal" since both DL and NWA BKs, and even the joint contract was a tad bit concessionary thanks to $130 a barrel oil at that time too. Bad timing.

As far as my continued jabs at your SLI, I am not trying to malign your airline. Even though I enjoy where I fly and what I fly, I don't think yours is a bad airline at all. I just wouldn't want to personally fly there. I love your pay and benefits though. I can't speak for OYS, but I too think there should be some fairness in the eventual list, and I just don't think any airline can negotiate that fairly between two groups. It is just too personal, and seniority is FOREVER as people continue to say (until the next merger). I see arbitration as a good thing for both groups. If one is confident in their own position, and they prove that with the lawyers, then great. Even though you will be a direct competitor in ATL, I know several pilots on each side, and another USAir is NOT what our total pilot community needs.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Ha ha ha! Delta pay same as SWA! You guys will take pay cuts (again) before that happens. BTW, I have 3 friends who left Delta to go to SWA. They did say they enjoyed the Vinice overnights, but they go to work to make money. And making money isn't what Delta pilots (or the while company) is good at. Maybe if they could have gotten on at Song it would have been a different situation.

If you say so Tanky, if you say so. Enoy the military, that doesn't waste money at all.


Bye Bye---General Lee