Why this difference between NJ and NJ Europe?

[flya380]

Why are the folks at NJ Europe making so much more money (starting FO is 50K Euros= 60K Dollars and Captains are over 6 figures)? Don't the 2 companies belong to the same owner?

Over there their pilots still get the positive space ticket to go to work and come back, how come NJ pilots lost this really nice feature in the last contract?

Cheers

 

[rettofly]

Why are the folks at NJ Europe making so much more money (starting FO is 50K Euros= 60K Dollars and Captains are over 6 figures)? Don't the 2 companies belong to the same owner?

One reason might be the confiscatory income taxes in most of the European countries. Last I heard, income tax at the low end of the earnings scale is more than 50%.

 

[RTRHD]

We all get positive space tickets.

 

[gunfyter]

Europeans make it harder to get your ratings thereby creating a shortage of pilots....

just like the AMA makes it hard to get into medical school.

 

[flya380]

From what I've heard NJE is a Portugal "domiciled" company operating out of UK, where the taxes are lower. So if I am not wrong pilots pay their taxes in UK wherever they live.

 

[flya380]

And If I am not wrong NJ pilots get airline tickets to go home once their 7 days are over, correct? They are on their own to go to work for the beggining of the trip.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Not correct. Company pays airline ticket to and from work every week for NJA, NJI, and NJE.

Salaries were increased at NJE because of a major pilot retention problem. There is also a major shortage of pilots in Europe due to rapid hiring at the numerous start-up airlines there and the ridiculous cost of flight training that keep new pilots out of the game.

NJE has also announced an ab initio program to fill pilot slots for the same reasons.

 

[flya380]

MY bad, I thought that since the last contract, new hires were supposed to live in one of the gateway cities.

 

[VVJM265]

You don't have to live in the domicile. If you don't then you are on your own to show up to work on time for the first day of the tour. In my case, I'll have to make my way from CRP to DAL, on my own dime, the night before to be ready to go on day 1. The company flies you from the domicile to the jet via com air if the jet is not at the domicile on the first day of the tour. Last day of the tour you can fly to somewhere other than the domicle, but the company will only pick up the cost of the flight to the domicile; you pay the balance. Confused yet?

 

[Guitar Guy]

NetJets couldn't afford to NOT positive-space us to get to the planes. And they'd be hurting for pilots if they didn't positive-space us home at the end of the tour.

 

[Mike Jenvey]

If I translate the "positive space tickets" correctly, I guess you mean "confirmed" tickets rather than standby, in which case, yes, we always get confirmed tickets. Also, we don't have a contracted start/finish time for Day 1 or day 6 or our tours - I think you guys have set times that have to be maintained. Yes, NJE will get us home on the last day of tour, but that might mean arriving at your gateway airport at 2300 hrs local in some cases (or later for a few of the further out gateways).

Tax versus salary - the European tax system is in no way coordinated or standardized! For example, in the UK, everyone gets a "tax allowance" of about US $10,000. Above that allowance (i.e. no tax paid on first $10K), the lowest rate is 10% (first $4K, whoopee doo!), then 22% until $70K. When you hit about $70K, bang, 40% is the rate! There are higher tax rates in other countries!! In most countries, you all pay some kind of "National Insurance," which is salary based, & for the UK mainly breaks down for free healthcare & state pension scheme (the age of getting this will be going up, thanks to Mr BLiar!). For me, typically I pay up to $3400 tax per month & $570 National Insurance, call it $4K all in! I can still consider myself lucky - in Belgium, it's 50% tax above earnings of about $39K!!! Add on national "state tax" or equivalent - 17.5% "VAT" on most goods in UK......

Several eastern European countries have gone down a "flat rate tax" for all scheme, much more efficient & easier to administer!

Our contracts have recently changed so that all crew living outside of Portugal on on a UK-based contract, paying UK National Insurance (technically, the benefits should be transferable to your home country) + 25% tax to Portugal; a looong (& confusing!) story, but basically the offices/AOC are based in Portugal, hence this tax situation. There are intra-country tax agreements to prevent being taxed for the same amount in home country, but it has changed the tax situation considerably for many crews.


Pilots - as discussed elsewhere (#29), it is prohibitively expensive to train as a pilot in Europe, & just one UK lo-co (easyJet) is looking for 400+ new pilots in 2007 - as a comparison with NJE, the T&Cs for an easyJet captain are:

Roster pattern is 5 earlies, 3 off, 5 lates, 4 off.
Captain's basic is £73,792 (€110,116) (approx $209K) and nominal sector pay is £23.64 ($44) (short sectors x0.8, medium sectors x1.2, and long sectors x1.5). There is a tax free element to this.
Loyalty bonus is 5% 2-4yrs, 10% 5-9yrs and 15% 10 yrs+
Uniform allowance £17.33pm ($33)
Loss of licence insurance provided at 1.3 x basic salary.
Pension 9% of basic (but can opt out of 2% of this and take the cash instead).
Vacation is 25 days (5x5 blocks) but of course you get the wrap around days also (ie 5 days leave, get 12 days off)
(They have been advertising recently for direct entry captains.......)
​

So, to give the precise Year One figures for NJE (as published in Flt International):

PIC Euros 95,000 = $124K
SIC Euros 56,500 = $74K​

Nowhere near the easyJet figures!! You have to add on our per diems of about $91/day (18 days month) = approx $19.5K per yr (not taxed).

 

[gutshotdraw]

Thanks for the info Mike. I recently overheard a group of NJE pilots at breakfast in Wilmington (Falcon training, I presume). One of the guys was a new hire and had 26 people in his indoc class. With the numbers easyjet is throwing around, I'd be interested to know how many are still there in a year.

 

[Mike Jenvey]

Wilmington? Could have been F900 guys, but maybe Hawker 800 also? We do Falcon 2000 EASy at Teterboro & sometimes Dallas; I think the 2000 Classic is Columbus?

That number of guys is maybe slightly higher than normal for an indoc (normally 20-ish at a time). Rumour is they ran several places light in January due to guys taking alternative job offers......

It's not just lo-co airlines pushing for more pilots, regional & "national" carriers are looking for guys too. If you look a bit further afield, carriers such as Emirates are also expanding at a huge rate. As you say, towards the end of the year will an interesting time for all airline recruiters, not just ours!