Why rent airplanes???

[UnAnswerd]

Your typical single-engine airplane probably costs around $75-$100/hour to rent. If you consistently fly even 4 hours a month, you could end up spending $400/month just to be in the air for a very short period of time. Not for nothing, but for the same amount per month, you could be making payments on a decent used airplane AND be spending an almost unlimited amount of time in the air. After 5 years of loan payments, you'll be an aircraft owner. After 5 years of rental payments, you'll be left with absolutely nothing. Yes there are hanger fees and insurance associated with aircraft ownership, but it would probably still be far less than renting once the loan is paid off. Anyone else see it this way????

 

[TrafficInSight]

Your typical single-engine airplane probably costs around $75-$100/hour to rent. If you consistently fly even 4 hours a month, you could end up spending $400/month just to be in the air for a very short period of time. Not for nothing, but for the same amount per month, you could be making payments on a decent used airplane AND be spending an almost unlimited amount of time in the air. After 5 years of loan payments, you'll be an aircraft owner. After 5 years of rental payments, you'll be left with absolutely nothing. Yes there are hanger fees and insurance associated with aircraft ownership, but it would probably still be far less than renting once the loan is paid off. Anyone else see it this way????

You'll be cured of that when you drop 5,000$ on the first annual.

Someone told me the break even point is something like 140 hrs. a year. If you fly more than that then it's worth it to own.

 

[Immelman]

I have crunched the numbers on several light singles and I came out with more like 100 hrs/yr to break even... but maybe I was too optimistic?

You have to play this by the numbers and then weigh that against the added utility and flexibility (and pain in the ass factor) that owning your own aircraft brings to the table.

Right away, with direct hourly expenses, you are at 40-50% of the expense of renting for fuel and engine reserve alone... add the hangar/tie down, insurance, annual, random stuff that breaks, etc... and it is not so easy.

All that said I still want to own my own airplane.. someday.

 

[MarineGrunt]

For a 172....

Adding up all the fixed costs, say,
$1200/yr hangar fees
$2000/yr insurance (guess)
$400/mo loan payment = $4800/year (guess)

You are paying appx $8,000/yr just to have the plane. Now add variable costs....

9gph @ $3/gal = $27/hr
Mx reserve appx $22/hr
Engine and prop reserve - $15/hr
Comes to $64/hr operating cost.

Now fly that for 200hrs in a year. = $20,800 total cost.

Rent the FBO's airplane at $80/hr for 200 hours in a year = $16,000

Keep in mind though, while the loan payment is money you get back when you sell the plane, it still comes out of your pocket every month. I think I'm gonna keep renting .

 

[Goose Egg]

Yeah, I pretty much decided a long time ago that owning my own airplane was out of the question. I don't do much renting at the moment either, but my students do!

I think the cost factor is one of the major reasons why I decided on flying as a profession. I love flying, but If I were not able to make a living from it, it would be prohibitively expensive.

I'm pretty stoked that flying can finally generate revenue (a small amount of it, anyway) instead of consume it. But as far as hobbies go, I think I'll stick to cheaper thrills.

-Goose

 

[Flying Illini]

Marine, that number gets a little closer when you add in Renter's Insurance.

The numbers work out for many individuals, you just have to shop around for fuel/hangar rates and it helps if you ARE and A and P or are very good friends with one.

 

[Flying Illini]

And I would LOVE to be able to find an airplane to rent for 80$ an hour...for the local 172 it's $125. The local ratted out archer was $95 an hour TWO years ago...probably around 110 now.

New rental #'s:

172 for 200hrs at 125/hr= $25,000 excluding renters insurance
Archer for 200 hrs at 95/hr= $19,000
at 110/hr= $22,000 both excluding renters insurance

compared to $20,800 for owning.

 

[8vATE]

Been there...did the airplane ownership thing...

Wait till the unexpected maintenance issue pops up...
$1500 bucks later and after 2 monthes of being grounded...


Renting looks much more attractive...


I do believe that an aircraft partnership is an excellent compromise...

One or two partners in an aircraft can really help share the expenses..
But the partners have to be good choices..

 

[eggman76]

Renting an Airplane - Expensive

Onwing an Airplane - Very Expensive

Going where you want, when you want, for as long as you want, in an airplane that you control mx and know intimately


---- PRICELESS

Owner of a Saratoga


Not including P&I it cost me $115/hr to operate the first year flying 175 hrs.

 

[Fly4Tatt2s]

It was just mentioned but being really new into aviation I have a question. What about the various aero clubs in some areas ? There is one here in Orlando and it appears they have a good amount of Cessnas and a couple M/E Aircraft as well. Can someone shed some light on these please ?

 

[urflyingme?!]

You pay a monthly fee($30-100) and like 500 bucks to join. Every one is different with joining, but they most are about that range. The rental prices on the clubs I checked out seemed reasonable. (30-50% less than FBO) Mae sure you find a non profit club. Some FBO's make it look like a club, when their really a business. I'm currently loking at some clubs to join, and each one is a little bit different, wiht some having strange rules and madatory wrok days at the hangar blah blah blah

 

[Blue]

Renting an Airplane - Expensive

Onwing an Airplane - Very Expensive

Going where you want, when you want, for as long as you want, in an airplane that you control mx and know intimately


---- PRICELESS

Owner of a Saratoga


Not including P&I it cost me $115/hr to operate the first year flying 175 hrs.

I second that. Renting is cheaper, but who hasn't woken up on a Saturday morning, thinking "Gee, today would be a great day to go chase some clouds" only to find all the planes at the local FBO booked up.

Not to mention the freedom of going on a cross country for a couple of days and not having to worry about flying hour/day minimums.

 

[mtrv]

Other options to rent or buying, are homebuilt/experimental kits. Many near retired or retired commercial pilots build and fly these airplanes, as well as current or ex-military, who prefer aircraft with a lot more get up and go than a Cessna 172 or Piper Archer. And of course, there are lots of pilots who just fly for fun that build these planes too!

Panels can range from simple to expensive glass setups, as well as quite a range of engines. Another advantage, is that as the builder, you can do your own annual and service work. This can vary depending on certified engines and props, if used.

http://www.vansaircraft.com/

 

[Capthuff]

Owning an airplane? where can you find a hanger for $100/month???
You could tie it down for that I guess.

Two or three partners in a plane and it makes alot of sense.

 

[UnAnswerd]

Panels can range from simple to expensive glass setups, as well as quite a range of engines. Another advantage, is that as the builder, you can do your own annual and service work. This can vary depending on certified engines and props, if used.

Not bad advise. Although not for everyone, building and flying a kit-plane seems like a lot of fun and possibly not as expensive as buying a small Cessna. I was looking at this little tiny airplane called a Rans S-14. The thing looks pretty sleek and fun to fly. And with the Rotax 912 you can climb at 1000'/min. Of course, by the time your finished with some of these kits, you could've indeed purchased a used Cessna...

 

[Immelman]

If you want to buy something cheap.. IMO:

Cessna 150/152 or Grumman AA-1. You're very limited.. but you'd have something affordable.

You cannot get cheaper in own/operating costs than those two, IMO.

If you are considering buying a used RV (I almost did a couple times) realize that you definately get what you pay for in terms of workmanship.

 

[MarineGrunt]

Owning an airplane? where can you find a hanger for $100/month???

I guess things are cheaper in my neck of the woods.

 

[GAcfi]

Clubs

I found that a flying club was a good compromise. We have 10 members per airplane with 3 airplanes in the club. You buy your share for $4000 that you can sell if you decide to leave the club. Our dues are 65 bucks a month. Our "rental" is just the cost to keep everything breaking even since we are a non-proffit corporation. Per hour "wet" charges. Citabria $35, C-172 $45, and a C-172RG $55. It is nice because the members all have their favorite airplane they fly which splits up the usage. we schedule online to avoid conflict.

However, you are dealing with 30 personalities and as an officer in the club I can tell you it can be work, but is very rewarding when those club business maintenance and ferry flights come around!

I would like to own one day. Another plus is the club's insurance covers the members with 200 deductible one would have to pay in the event of an accident.

 

[Vector4fun]

For an in-expensive fixed gear single, a 2-3 way partnership is a good deal if the partners are really compatable. I've seen some problems when the parnership involves something faster, more complex, and easily abused. One lady I know got out of her T210 partnership because the maint was eating them alive, even split 5 ways. Lots of engine troubles, even after a complete overhaul. Improper operation and leaning? I dunno, but it never lasted 50 hrs without going back to the shop. A little harder to abuse an O-320. Clubs can be a good deal.

In my neighborhood, hangers are $250-$350 per mo nearby. Gotta get on a waiting list for a $150 hanger 30 miles away from the city. I hear horror stories in CA of $600/mo hangers for Cessna singles. (ouch!)

If you have 200 hrs or so and an instrument rating, insurance on a $50K Skyhawk is going to be in the $1000/yr range, maybe a bit less, and provided it's hangered.

Also for the Skyhawk, provided it's not been abused, about $1500/yr for maint and annual if you shop around and perhaps help or do it yourself whenever possible. About $12/hr for engine reserve on a fixed-pitch O-320, and that's being conservative I think.

As somebody else said, having it waiting for you 24/7 and no minimums should you like to visit the grandkids for a week. That's almost priceless.

 

[Lead Sled]

I'd look around for flying clubs. Here in the San Diego area there are two or three. They're getting $60 to $65 an hour "wet" for a C-172. The initiation fees and monthly dues are very reasonable as well. I've seen the airplanes, they look nice and I understand that the clubs keep up on the maintenance. I think that with a little poking around, you could probably find at least one flying club at nearly any general aviation airport.

I've owned several aircraft in the past - from gliders to a C-421. Some, I've owned my myself, others I've owned in one type of partnership or another. I've always made out just fine when it came time to sell. I bought my first airplane back when I had my private. I used it to build total time for my commercial and for most of the flight training on my commercial and instrument ratings. I owned it for nearly three years. When I sold it I got enough out of it to pay for all of the flying. Nothing like a couple hundred hours, including a basically free instrument and commercial. I'm sure it's possible to do the same thing nowdays - if you chose wisely and shop carefully.

'Sled

 

[Wankel7]

Your typical single-engine airplane probably costs around $75-$100/hour to rent. If you consistently fly even 4 hours a month, you could end up spending $400/month just to be in the air for a very short period of time. Not for nothing, but for the same amount per month, you could be making payments on a decent used airplane AND be spending an almost unlimited amount of time in the air. After 5 years of loan payments, you'll be an aircraft owner. After 5 years of rental payments, you'll be left with absolutely nothing. Yes there are hanger fees and insurance associated with aircraft ownership, but it would probably still be far less than renting once the loan is paid off. Anyone else see it this way????

When I go to an airport and I need a car...I tend to check out hertz...and not the local car lot.

Enough said

Wankel

 

[lamank]

Thooughts on a PA-30

I'm considering forming a partnership with two other commercial pilots in a PA-30 (twin Cmche) The engines seem about as reliable and inexpensive as any, although the fuel bill for two of them scares me a little. Maybe with three gentle flying pilots we can make it worthwhile. Any experiences/thoughts?
Thanks!

 

[sky37d]

Been there...did the airplane ownership thing...

Wait till the unexpected maintenance issue pops up...
$1500 bucks later and after 2 monthes of being grounded...

I am nearing the end of being grounded for 3+ months, and $30,000 lighter, after discovering we had a crack in the case. With the AD's on cranks, cases, etc, we ended up with a new engine. It took them from Dec 12 (order date) to Feb 25 (ship date). After 3 weeks, the IA only has a few more issues (the alternator doesn't charge), to resolve, and then I can go fly again.

 

[lamank]

Ouch

Well, that's enough for me. I keep hearing the same kind of night-mare stories. If I had a bottomless checking account I guess those stories wouldn't scare me, but.........

 

[sky37d]

Well, that's enough for me. I keep hearing the same kind of night-mare stories. If I had a bottomless checking account I guess those stories wouldn't scare me, but.........

The thing is, when something happens, you basically have 2 choices. Pay the money, or scrap the plane.

 

[RightPedal]

I owned a 65 model Cherokee 160 for over twenty years. I had a 72 model maule for six years and I didn't make a lot of money either.
It was tough not having enough to pay for every little thing that was needed. I did all sorts of side jobs for extra cash. The most rewarding was working for FBO's. In that enviroment there was always a way to trade time for parts or service.
My A&P-IA had keys to both aircraft with unlimited use in return for his services. He would give me a list of what was needed and I did the work under his supervision. Thank goodness I never had any big ticket items like engine or prop problems come up. One tends to take better care of things when your actions could determine success or failure.
Insurance was cheap back then compaired to now. My Maule cost me $1200 per year and the Cherokee was only $800.
Payment, insurance and tiedown was around $500 per month for the Maule. I couldn't afford a hangar which exceeded the payment on the plane. Fuel was the hard part. I burned 2500gl a year no problem. One thing for sure. If you want to keep the wife, have the fuel bill go to a PO box.
There is no way I could own one now. The cost of aircraft and services being double, and more, compaired to just fifteen years ago. My income has not kept up with inflation. My body can't stand hundred hour weeks any longer.
I think a pilot needs to fly no less than an hour per week to maintain any proficiency. Where I live a ragged out 172 is more now than a nice arrow was just five years ago.
I was ask once what makes an airplane fly. I answered with Thrust and lift. Wrong he replied, money makes an airplane fly.

 

[Flying Illini]

I was ask once what makes an airplane fly. I answered with Thrust and lift. Wrong he replied, money makes an airplane fly.

...how do you make a small fortune in aviation? start with a large fortune.

 

[54tw]

I've known several pilots who've purchase inexpensive aircraft and flown the wings off them, built time, then sold to fill those initial logbook pages. One couple that bought a C150, put it on lease back with the FBO and earned their PPLs for minimal expense. This example is rare, but can be done. Of course they traded up to the C172 that probably should have been their initial purchase.

Just throwing my numbers out there for anyone considering ownership, not trying to advocate either route. I've found a niche that works for me. Consider there are cheaper aircraft out there than a Super Cub.

My last cost analysis went like this:

Note - 347
Hangar - 210
Insur. - 100
Maint. - 100
per mo - 757
per yr - 9084

This was cost to have the aircraft just sitting in the hangar with no reserve for engine/airframe overhaul, or unexpected maintenance. There will be unexpected maintenance, though if you buy carefully that can be infrequent.

Average $25 an hour for fuel then overhaul reserves ($15?) = $40 per hour x 100 hrs per year = $4K.

4,000 direct op cost (@100 hrs)
+9,084 Static
12,084 per yr @ 100 hrs Looks like my year averaged hourly cost isn't that cheap either, but...

I "own" this aircraft for the absolute love of flying, schedule versatility, training others, ability to use unimproved strips, aerial photography, and it's both an antique and an unusual aircraft. On that sad day should I have to ever sell, I'll recoup some of my investment, but the experiences will be forever memorable.

 

[bobbysamd]

Aircraft ownership v. non-ownership

Your typical single-engine airplane probably costs around $75-$100/hour to rent. If you consistently fly even 4 hours a month, you could end up spending $400/month just to be in the air for a very short period of time. Not for nothing, but for the same amount per month, you could be making payments on a decent used airplane AND be spending an almost unlimited amount of time in the air. After 5 years of loan payments, you'll be an aircraft owner. After 5 years of rental payments, you'll be left with absolutely nothing. Yes there are hanger fees and insurance associated with aircraft ownership, but it would probably still be far less than renting once the loan is paid off. Anyone else see it this way????

Don't forget about maintenance. Your airplane will require annuals, and, unless you find one with an engine with very low TBO, you will need an engine overhaul. Not cheap. Nor are the little squawks that come up from time to time that ground you and nickel and dime you to death, not to mention the headaches and worries of getting them fixed.

At the end of your five-year loan payments, assuming you have the wherewithal to keep up with the payments, along with your other bills and loans, you will be an aircraft owner. That's nice. You can include yourself as an Owner when you update your AOPA membership. What if severe wx comes along and wrecks your pride and joy? The emotional involvement aside, dealing with insurance companies to be compensated for your loss is not simple.

Did I mention fuel costs? Unless you have a fat wallet you won't be spending as much time in the air as you might think. Moreover, if wx grounds you away from your home airport and you have to go home, you'll have to find another way home, e.g, a rental car. Then, you have to get back and bring home your airplane - while probably paying tiedown fees by the night. Granted, renters face similar dilemmas.

It is said that the two happiest days for an aircraft owner are the day he/she buys the airplane and the day he/she sells it. Think about that statement.

 

[atrdriver]

Has anyone had any experience with a lease back to an FBO?