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why is aviation degree SO bad?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Airspur
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Airspur

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2003
Posts
51
I have seen a lot of posts that suggest not getting a degree in aviation. I realize that one would want a backup in case their flying career came to an abrubt hault. However, there are so many people out there that have one degree or another and are working in a completely different industry. My friend, for example, is a banker and has an Agricultural Science degree - not even a business minor. And so is the case with aviation...business degrees, engineering, etc. But I feel that my Aeronautical Science degree is just the same. It was a blast working on getting it, even easy at times. I say why get the boring business degree and do something you truly enjoy.

So I guess my question is - Does anyone have a bad experience trying to get a job in another industry with an aviation degree?

~Airspur
 
degree has little value

compared to the cost ofthe degree it has very little market value when you go looking for a job. Real degrees that are harder to get, have a higher market value, Engineering, Accounting, Chemistry, Physics,
 
Airspur said:
I say why get the boring...degree and do something you truly enjoy.
But see, that's just it. There are pilots who have interests outside of aviation. I love airplanes and airports and everything about them, but I also enjoy Earth studies (geography/geology), history, and astronomy/cosmology. By getting an education in one of those fields, I've bought insurance against the day I lose my medical or get furloughed or whatever...and I had a good time doing it.

For what it's worth, I ended up with a B.A. in Geography (with emphasis of cartography and remote sensing) from the University of Tennessee...and no, it's had no effect whatsoever on my aviation career...not counting the fact that I had to have a four-year degree to get hired!

If your university education is not connected to your flight training, I think you're better off pursuing a degree in a field you enjoy that's not related to aviation. Besides giving you a backup, I suppose it also makes you more well-rounded.
 
I got to side with Yip on this- I don't want to discount your Aviation Degree but in today's market it means little. In 1983 the degree you have would have been top notch but with the advent of online MBA's and the like it has devalued all our degrees's. I know I will offend a lot of people but the simple fact is that a College Degree in 1983 is roughly the same as a Highschool Diploma today- I don't agree but that's the market that I see. I wish you the best- your degree is what you make it!! Wil
 
Last edited:
Typhoon- I dig your style (and your avtar!) I hope all is well with you. You must have posted as I was responding. I don't want to negate any Degree. But I think that with the advent of online degree's, etc it has eroded all of our degrees- thoughts? All the best Wil (Fellow DCI B*tch)
 
wil said:
I know I will offend a lot of people but the simple fact is that a College Degree in 1983 is roughly the same as a Highschool Diploma today...
No offense taken...because you're right. My wife's got a B.S. in Psychology, and she discovered that she can't do squat until she gets her Masters...except tell me I'm "in denial" when we have a disagreement. :D
 
Is any degree really worth anything in 10 years? If you get a computer/tech degree now, the field will have changed so much in 10 years time that you might as well have the proverbial "Underwater Basket Weaving" degree.

Imagine the aviation professionals now who learned programming in 1984 with an Apple 2.....I'm sure they have lots to fall back on.

If anything, a college education says you can learn, set and attain goals, and generally not suck at the standards set to define success in today's culture. ;)

Of course, I have an aviation degree so maybe I'm just trying to convince myself its worth something.
 
UnstableAviator said:
Is any degree really worth anything in 10 years? If you get a computer/tech degree now, the field will have changed so much in 10 years time that you might as well have the proverbial "Underwater Basket Weaving" degree.

Imagine the aviation professionals now who learned programming in 1984 with an Apple 2.....I'm sure they have lots to fall back on.

If anything, a college education says you can learn, set and attain goals, and generally not suck at the standards set to define success in today's culture. ;)

Exactly...
 
i've seen the same question on another message board that i frequent. it is a board that happens to have alot of law enforment officers. every now and then someone will ask about getting a degree in criminal justice to help them become a cop.

every time they get an answer that they should get a degree in something other than criminal justice so if they need something to fall back on.

i really think it doesn't matter what your degree is in. as previously stated it shows that you have a higher level of learning, commitment and determination.
 
Flyguy5432H said:
i've seen the same question on another message board that i frequent. it is a board that happens to have alot of law enforment officers. every now and then someone will ask about getting a degree in criminal justice to help them become a cop.

every time they get an answer that they should get a degree in something other than criminal justice so if they need something to fall back on.

i really think it doesn't matter what your degree is in. as previously stated it shows that you have a higher level of learning, commitment and determination.

All I can say is if I have to go see a Doctor I certainly hope that dude has a degree in medicine and not Accounting! (You know, "just in case"... something to "fall back on"...)
 
The watered down aviation degree

Pilotyip may very well be correct and in simple economic terms perhaps a four-year degree really is a waste of time.

BUT. In terms of one's own edification you simply cannot argue that a rigorous course of study is a waste of time.

Why are we, the last superpower on Earth, tolerating this dumbing-down of America?

As an ERAU grad (Aero. Studies/Management '90) I'll tell you what has devalued my degree: The Embry-Riddle Extended Campus program.:mad:

When I lived in Anchorage I worked with both "professors" and students from that program.

What a JOKE! These people were earning the very same degree I possess but never attending classes! One prof I knew would discuss beer making.

I, on the other hand, was taught economics by Dr. Abe Harraf. Anybody remember him?

I was taught meteorology by John Holley. Remember him?

I was taught calculus by Dr. Gary Harrison. How about him?

Aviation and Business Law by Dr. Bill Cheek.
History/Regulation of Aviation by Leon Kelly.

In short, I feel I received a rigorous education. But there are hundreds of jokers out there with my very same degree who are quite obviously skating through the entire night-school routine.

I paid a lot of money and worked my butt off for that degree. It just burns me up a little...but I feel better now.
 
Mar,

I'll have to disagree with you there. Heaven knows I'm no college boy...but I did undertake the distance learning program through ERAU. In my opinion, there was no give at all, nor watering down of the material presented. Due to my work, I had to drop several classes because I just couldn't keep up. I was provided the same texts, the same material as any resident student. I was provided instructor access, and I had instructors that were enthusiastic about what they did, and who were quick to respond.

In truth, I couldn't give two shakes about the paper; the degree is utterly worthless. However, it's paper that by tradition a few folsk put some stock in, so therefore the brand name and the paper itself is worth having. I would have preferred to field the money and get the degree, were it as dumbed down and freely available as you might suggest. However, it was not the case.

Each instructor required the student to work for it, and some of the material was beyond me. There was no easy pass. Nothing was required of me with respect to the core of the degree; I was given eighty five or so credits right off the bat for my various certificates. What was required of me were a few basic aviation courses, and the general ed material...every bit of it as thick and dreary as what I remembered from high school.

When all is said and done, that degree will make fine emergency toilet paper, an orgami crane, or a small, pilotless airplane. As far as being worth anything? I really doubt it.
 
I'll make a retraction

Avbug--Yeah man. I've had second thoughts about my last post.

I apologize to every ERAU Distant Learning 'Prof' and 'Student'.

I chose my words without putting much thought into the matter. After all, those extended campuses are pretty much scattered everywhere. I probably just knew a couple bad apples. I'm sure a certain level of professionalism is maintained by whomever administers the program.

And secondly, I'm rethinking my response to Pilotyip. After some thought I realize he was trying to say *if* you're gonna waste the time and money ;) on a degree you might as well go get a meaty degree like engineering.

Granted, my degree program wasn't the most challenging in the history of the modern education.

But I worked hard at it; I chose electives that gave me a good balance of business/aviation/humanities; I was involved in extra-curricular activities; and like anything else, you're gonna get out of your education exactly what you put into it.

If you're looking for underwater basketweaving, you'll get it. If you're looking for knowledge and experience, you'll find it.

Anywhere.

Avbug--Thanks for calling B.S. I just got a little cranky there for a second.:rolleyes:
 
The value of a degree

avbug said:
In my opinion, there was no give at all, nor watering down of the material presented.

Are you sure there was 'no give'? How do you know? Did you attend the non-distance learning program for comparison? I realize this is just your opinion, but what is your basis for comparison, high school?

I would have preferred to field the money and get the degree, were it as dumbed down and freely available as you might suggest. However, it was not the case. . .

Nothing was required of me with respect to the core of the degree; I was given eighty five or so credits right off the bat for my various certificates.

"Nothing" was required of you as far as the core, and you were "given 85 credits" just for 'life experience and previous learning', but you maintain it wasn't "dumbed down" or "freely available"? This seems contradictory to me.

When all is said and done, that degree will make fine emergency toilet paper, an orgami crane, or a small, pilotless airplane. As far as being worth anything? I really doubt it.

A degree is worthless? Wow, just when you think you've heard it all . . .

First you say that an Embry Riddle Distance Learning degree (and therefore, the education that it stands for) is just as good as a 'real' Embry Riddle education, and then you asign a value to it akin to a paper airplane.

I don't mean to offend, but anyone who doesn't value their degree reflects directly on the value of their degree and the institution that stands behind it, the efforts put forth to achieve it, and the learning achieved.

If this is how you see your degree, then I am inclined to think even less of it than you do. As long as you see your degree as worthless, it is. I certainly wouldn't put any stock in it after what you've said about it. I don't know of any University that allows it's 'distance learning' program graduates to graduate with the same degree as those that attended the school in person, and I am inclinded to agree with the policy after reading this review of Embry Riddle's program. If Embry Riddle is the top 'aviation school', I'd hate to see what value students graduating from 'bottom tier' avation schools assign to their education.

An education is something that can never be taken away from you. Never devalue your own education.

And no, I did not go to Embry Riddle.
 
Don't get an aviation degree, plain and simple, if you want to be a professional pilot. Do you know what we do all day? Sit and talk to each other - in the crew room, on the ramp, in the hanger, and especially in cruise flight.

It is SO boreing to only have aviation to talk about, but, if you have a degree in it, you really don't have much else that you're very knowledgeable on, do you?

Perhaps these are selfish reasons (and entirely hipocritical considering how much time I spend on flightinfo mainly writing about aviation), but they are valid to me, at least. I love when the guy or gal I share the controls with is versed in literary criticism, molecular biology, or art history. There's plenty of time to talk about the contract and avation, and all pilots will do it anyway.

Now geography (w/ an emphasis on cartography), that is awesome for a pilot to have. You look out the window, and BAM!, geography everywhere. I would love to fly with you, Typhoon! I could learn so much from you.
 
Airspur said:
So I guess my question is - Does anyone have a bad experience trying to get a job in another industry with an aviation degree?
 
"Nothing" was required of you as far as the core, and you were "given 85 credits" just for 'life experience and previous learning', but you maintain it wasn't "dumbed down" or "freely available"? This seems contradictory to me.

Stillaboo, I hold five different FAA certificates with a host of privileges and ratings. None of those were given to me. ACE recognizes those certificates and ratings as being worth a given value in academic credit. ERAU recognizes that having me go back to school to duplicate the training already received (and then some) would be pointless. I was granted credit for the certification that was already part of the program.

More importantly, ERAU recognizes that the education received to date would make anything they or any other academic body has to offer, pale by comparison. Their scroll is written in ink. Mine in blood.

It is SO boreing to only have aviation to talk about, but, if you have a degree in it, you really don't have much else that you're very knowledgeable on, do you?

How sarcastically fresh. Condension based on privileged learning.

I read shakespeare, not because of a degree, but because I like it. I have trained in and taught martial arts for almost twenty years...not because it was an elective credit, but because it became a way of life. I read zen, the art of war, book of five rings, and practiced them. Not because it was a class project; because it has been my life.

I have studied agriculture, engineering, peace, war, and politics. I have studied mathematics, grammar, philosophy, and theology. Not one day of study was conducted in a classroom, and none of it by virtue of a school. I have travelled foriegn lands, lived in the jungle, in the desert, on the street, and in the bush. I have volunteered my time and my life, and fought for it. I spent two years learning humility and looking inside myself sharing and learning about God.

I learned at every step that for every single tidbit of knowlege, I find I have been twice as ignorant, knowing nothing. Perhaps I have nothing to talk about, and perhaps your great education entitles you to a higher station for your advanced learning (and a degree to prove it), but I rather doubt it.

Perhaps you're right; I have nothing to talk about as I'm not really knowledgeable about anything else, right?

Are you sure there was 'no give'? How do you know? Did you attend the non-distance learning program for comparison? I realize this is just your opinion, but what is your basis for comparison, high school?

High school is an adequate comparison, yes. But how do I know there was no give? I know that some of the work was beyond me. There was no bending to alter the standards for me. There was no adjusting of curriculum, nor quarter on my behalf. Were I not able to complete the full measure of what was assigned, then the grade was meted accordingly. No give at all.

Precisely as it should be.

Then again, having grown up on the campus, or associated with the campus, of a major university for certain years, I would know nothing about other levels of learning or education.

First you say that an Embry Riddle Distance Learning degree (and therefore, the education that it stands for) is just as good as a 'real' Embry Riddle education, and then you asign a value to it akin to a paper airplane.

Had I a degree from a vaunted institution of ivy and snobbery, I would no more value that degree than one obtained in residency or by distance at Embry, Parks, UND, or any other label name. Is it the program I see as being of no worth? Not hardly. It's the degree. What has the degree to teach me, but to waste my time? It's a motion, nothing more. Hoops, to be jumped through.

An aviation degree is nothing more than a piece of paper that certifies that I know what I already knew. Those who have such a degree hold it high, clutched in a proud hand to tell the world of their elevated status. Look at me, I hold a degree; it makes me somehow better. Forget the pride. I don't need it, nor do I wear it or the transcripts as some badge of accomplishment or honor. It's nothing more than convention turned savagely on a life in order to waste two years in pursuit of crumbling paper; a miserable trade for a scrap of parchament.

I don't know of any University that allows it's 'distance learning' program graduates to graduate with the same degree as those that attended the school in person,

And you have the ignorant gall to call me uneducated. Every school and university, including most major universities today which offer distance learning, offer the EXACT same degree by distance as earned in residency. The degree bears no difference, the efficacy is the same. The value is the same. The degree is the same. Forget your haughy pride; you know not whence you speak. You are an idiot, and know it not.

If this is how you see your degree, then I am inclined to think even less of it than you do.

View it as you will. It matters not a whit to me. It's not the specific degree, but the concept of a degree in general. As though spending four years, or eight years or more prostrate to the higher mind, bowing and scraping the dust for the mite of recognition, means an element of a thing to me. Not at all. Your degee means nothing to me, my training and education means nothing to me. A degree does not equate learning, or education; it equates to completion of a curricula, and nothing more.

An education is something that can never be taken away from you. Never devalue your own education.

Quite correct. Never forget that education begins after the degree; the confirrance of that degree is nothing more than a formality, like the Phd given to the scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz. When we leave this world, all we take is our education; it's not necessarily found in college, and it has nothing to do with a degree.
 
All I can say is if I have to go see a Doctor I certainly hope that dude has a degree in medicine and not Accounting! (You know, "just in case"... something to "fall back on"...)

i fully agree with you. thats reason i went to school for an aviation degree.

i found it interesting that the same question asked in the same context, but in a completely different professional field recieved alot of the same opinion that is found in the question here.
 
All I can say is if I have to go see a Doctor I certainly hope that dude has a degree in medicine and not Accounting! (You know, "just in case"... something to "fall back on"...)
I knew early on that I could NEVER be a Doctor, I just didn't have the patience.
 

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