why do many owners change the every 25hrs?

[climbhappy]

i keep seeing owners in their ads proclaiming oil changes every 25 hours. even 50. over the years i have several wealthy people who owned planes and this was their practice. i don't think it has any mechanical sense.

i have changed it every 100 hrs, even 50 , but 25?

i think it has alot to do with fear of dying and somehow this is some surefire way to prevent an engine failure.

even if an oil analysis reveals higher amounts of some metals , this is an alert that something may be down the road.

 

[avbug]

Frequent oil changes are the least expensive, and most potentially effective means of preventative maintenance that an owner or operator can do. 25 hours is a good interval.

Fear of dying? What are you talking about? What has that to do with maintenance?

Oil should be changed ever 25 to 50 hours, and every 3-4 months, regardless. If the airplane sits for three months and doesn't move at all, the oil should be be changed...something overlooked by many owner/operators. Acids still build in the oil, corrosion still takes place...oil needs to be changed. This is more true of wet sumps than dry, but never the less important.

This has nothing to do with "preventing an engine failure." Who told you that changing oil is about preventing engine failure? How about preventing excess wear, corrosion, and protecting the capabilities and properties of the oil?

even if an oil analysis reveals higher amounts of some metals , this is an alert that something may be down the road.

If a spectrometric oil analysis shows an elevated level of a particular element or metal in the engine, then it's not oemthing that "may be down the road." It's there right now.

Oil analysis is an ongoing trend, and not something where one merely takes a sample and knows the engine. One shouldn't be seeing significant changes in the analysis, and the analysis needs to be done frequently and regularly. If one sees a change, it's time to take note now, not later.

That's really the whole point of doing a spectrometric oil analysis.

A car should have the oil changed every 3,000 miles or so...a good interval. An aircraft that flies 120 mph has already flown the same mile equivilent at 25 hours as a car has before it's oil change.

Change your oil often. It's cheap, and despite what you think (and your wildly imaginitive reasons for not changing the oil), it is important.

 

[NW_Pilot]

I change mine every 20 to 25 hours or 90 days, I Change Filter Every 40 to 50 hours or 90 days What ever occurs first or depending on my usage Touch and Goes she gets a sump change every 15 to 20 hours. Oil is cheap compared to cylinders and other engine parts.

 

[avbug]

The filter should be changed every time the oil is changed. Otherwise you're wasting your time. Change one, change the other. And cut open and inspect the filter each time. An oil analysis should be performed with each oil change.

 

[climbhappy]

avbug,
i'm not wildly imaginative, i questioned the practice. that's fair.

listen, i was checked out in a cirrus 22 recently. it is obvious the plane is hugely successful because of the parachute. wealthy guys are generally good at risk management.

that said, the instructor toild me that a recent fatality in a 22 at SVH was due the fledgling pilot not being able to go back to raw data flying the airplane on approach. his in PFD was fine, but on the approach panic set in. he went missed then could not fly the airplane with all its automation. he said the profile looked like a roller coaster.

point being, there have 12 fatalites in the cirrus even though it has a parachute. granted , you must be at least 400 feet above the ground. he said they can run the automation, but can't fly!!!

i relate this the oil change because i have never heard any good A & P say this is what you should do. I have only heard wealthy owners say that is what they do.

i disagree on you point about the oil analysis saying engine metal compounds higher than normal mean it is getting ready to seize. we don'y what compounds? if its nickel that would mean crankshaft, right? titantium? cylinders? anyway, i have always been told to monitor it. depends on the amount.

i think 50 hours it normal and okay, i'm not sold on 25 hours. if the the plane is flown regularly. if is flown 5 hours every two months, then i might agree with a change evrry three or 4 months. we all know aircraft flown infrequently are bigger maint risks than those that fly often.

like your detailed info, though

by the way, i have met alot of riuch guys who own planes. they do have an inate fear. i knew one who changed his oil every ten hours.

 

[A Squared]

i keep seeing owners in their ads proclaiming oil changes every 25 hours. even 50. over the years i have several wealthy people who owned planes and this was their practice. i don't think it has any mechanical sense.

i have changed it every 100 hrs, even 50 , but 25?

i think it has alot to do with fear of dying and somehow this is some surefire way to prevent an engine failure.

even if an oil analysis reveals higher amounts of some metals , this is an alert that something may be down the road.

How about because that is what both lycoming and continental recommend? That's why I do it. Do you have some compelling reason to go against manufactureer's recomended procedures?

 

[pilotyip]

50 hours no problems

I change my oil every 50 hours, oil and filter, or 6 months. I ran my 0-320 to 2300 hours. The interior of the engine was spotless, compression still in the mid 70's and burned a quart every 8 hours. The secret to engine life is not the difference between a 25 hour oil change and a 50 hour oil change, it is preventing the airplane and its engine from sitting for extended periods of time without being operated. My airplane flies at least 1 hour every 10 days.

 

[climbhappy]

A squared,
i did not know that. thanks for the info.

i used to change my aztec every hundred hours. it flew 135 and we couldn't take it offline but once a month.

if a plane is flown 3 to 4 times a week, i doubt there is any real difference in wear. i'd take the regualrly flown engine with 100 hr intervals over the one flown five to ten hours month, but changed every 25

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Ok, is this about poor pilot skills or about oil
changing intervals?

The metal content will give you signs of failure. If
you keep a trend, if there is a sudden spike of a
certain element or compound, then you can look
for a problem in a specific area. Simple preventative
maintenance. With a single piston engine, some
people like to take extra precautions.

CE

avbug,
i'm not wildly imaginative, i questioned the practice. that's fair.

listen, i was checked out in a cirrus 22 recently. it is obvious the plane is hugely successful because of the parachute. wealthy guys are generally good at risk management.

that said, the instructor toild me that a recent fatality in a 22 at SVH was due the fledgling pilot not being able to go back to raw data flying the airplane on approach. his in PFD was fine, but on the approach panic set in. he went missed then could not fly the airplane with all its automation. he said the profile looked like a roller coaster.

point being, there have 12 fatalites in the cirrus even though it has a parachute. granted , you must be at least 400 feet above the ground. he said they can run the automation, but can't fly!!!

i relate this the oil change because i have never heard any good A & P say this is what you should do. I have only heard wealthy owners say that is what they do.

i disagree on you point about the oil analysis saying engine metal compounds higher than normal mean it is getting ready to seize. we don'y what compounds? if its nickel that would mean crankshaft, right? titantium? cylinders? anyway, i have always been told to monitor it. depends on the amount.

i think 50 hours it normal and okay, i'm not sold on 25 hours. if the the plane is flown regularly. if is flown 5 hours every two months, then i might agree with a change evrry three or 4 months. we all know aircraft flown infrequently are bigger maint risks than those that fly often.

like your detailed info, though

by the way, i have met alot of riuch guys who own planes. they do have an inate fear. i knew one who changed his oil every ten hours.

 

[MauleSkinner]

avbug,
...wealthy guys are generally good at risk management.

They may be good at risk management in their particular area of expertise, but this ability doesn't always translate well into aviation risk management.

My experience with "wealthy" owner-pilots is that they tend to accept some inordinately high levels of risk, in part because they don't have the experience to understand exactly what the risks are or see risky situations developing around them, and in part because they see "other people" flying under similar circumstances but don't have the same level of proficiency that the "other people" have to minimize the risks involved...As long as everything works, they're fine, but even a minor malfunction of the airplane would cause serious problems simply because they don't think far enough out to have options available.

Fly safe!

David

 

[NW_Pilot]

They may be good at risk management in their particular area of expertise, but this ability doesn't always translate well into aviation risk management.

My experience with "wealthy" owner-pilots is that they tend to accept some inordinately high levels of risk, in part because they don't have the experience to understand exactly what the risks are or see risky situations developing around them, and in part because they see "other people" flying under similar circumstances but don't have the same level of proficiency that the "other people" have to minimize the risks involved...As long as everything works, they're fine, but even a minor malfunction of the airplane would cause serious problems simply because they don't think far enough out to have options available.

Fly safe!

David

It's funny when the "wealthy" go to a place they or others think think is unsafe and bring security, Talk about making them selves a target and scream that they have money and are worth something.

I know many seedy people in this world and know the "wealthy" are taking a larger risk arriving in a multi thousand dollar suits with security then if they arrived in bluejeans and tee shirt with cheap luggage. I guess it's their show off, arrogant, stand out nature!

 

[avbug]

i relate this the oil change because i have never heard any good A & P say this is what you should do.

You've heard it in this thread, but whether a mechanic tells you to change your oil reguarly or not shouldn't be what drives you to do it. Oil experts will tell you to do it. Engine manufacturers will tell you to do it. Oil companies recommend it.

Wealth is irrelevant. You need regular oil changes.

Pilotyip made a good point; regular engine operation is essential to long life. That said, regular oil changes are still the least expensive and easiest preventative maintenance you can do for the long run, and it's essential.

If you haven't heard an experienced mechanic tell to do regular oil changes before, then you have now. You also haven't talked to experienced mechanics before, if you've never heard this counsel.

listen, i was checked out in a cirrus 22 recently. it is obvious the plane is hugely successful because of the parachute. wealthy guys are generally good at risk management.

The airplane is successful because Cirrus makes a good product. The parachute is a popular selling point, but not the most important one. Cirrus made the airplane look and feel like a car, and it was more easily accepted; it was made to fit the comfort and familiarity of the customer, and it sells.

"Risk management" is a misnomer that has nothing to do with wealth. Your comments involve several topics which are not interdependent, nor necessarily related. The airplane does not sell largely because of the parachute. Wealth does not necessarily equate to "risk management," and being wealthy does not mean one is good at it. Nor does being wealthy have to do with the presence of a parachute, the use thereof, or a purchase made based or not based on the inclusion of the parachute assembly. Further, associating "wealthy guys are good at risk management" with the airplane having a parachute is nonsensical, and doesn't even work as a paragraph.

point being, there have 12 fatalites in the cirrus even though it has a parachute. granted , you must be at least 400 feet above the ground. he said they can run the automation, but can't fly!!!

Again, an incoherent paragraph. 12 fatalities has nothing to do with being 400 feet above the ground, nor automation, nor being able to fly, nor has any correlation been made, which means the paragraph has no point. Nor has it anything to do with the price of tea in china, or frequency of oil changes.

i disagree on you point about the oil analysis saying engine metal compounds higher than normal mean it is getting ready to seize. we don'y what compounds? if its nickel that would mean crankshaft, right? titantium? cylinders? anyway, i have always been told to monitor it. depends on the amount.

Sounds like your mind is made up, and you're your own expert. Your comments are again nonsensical, however...I can't even understand your first sentence, there.

You have titanium cylinders?

The value of an oil analysis is not found in a single report, but in a trend, and only then if done regularly.

Your efforts at oil analysis interpretation sound an awful lot like a patient trying to self-diagnose with a single walmart blood pressure reading.

i used to change my aztec every hundred hours. it flew 135 and we couldn't take it offline but once a month.

if a plane is flown 3 to 4 times a week, i doubt there is any real difference in wear. i'd take the regualrly flown engine with 100 hr intervals over the one flown five to ten hours month, but changed every 25

Clearly you're going to do whatever you want to do without much concern for doing it right, but you might want to do a little bit of research. Oil breaks down thermally. It becomes contaminated with combustion byproducts. It experiences an acid buildup. It's viscosity properties, it's lubricity properties, it's thermal properties all change, as does it's chemical composition. Running an airplane for extended hourly periods merely because it flies frequently is false economy, and is improper.

If your airplane is flying frequently, then it should be inspected frequently. The oil should be changed frequently. Oil analysis should be done frequently.

I've seen airplanes develop many different dangerous conditions in a 100 hour period, from control malfunctions to cracked wings. A lot can happen in a hundred hours. Merely because you're drawing income from that airplane doesn't excuse you from inspecting the airplane and performing simple, necessary maintenance, including oil changes. In fact, if that airplane is getting a lot of use, then all the more reason to step up the inspections, oil change intervals, analysis, etc.

If you can't see the sense in doing proper maintenance, perhaps you can see the economical sense in avoiding an interruption in service by doing it right the first time. Some people are too busy sawing that they can't seem to take time to sharpen the saw. Consequently they're always cutting with a dull saw.

Your comments paint you as the dull saw kind of guy.