Why are there 6 year FOs flying AE? Am I missing Something?

[CX880]

How can they take half a decade or more to upgrade from a prop FO?

 

[Mesabi Miner]

Obviously there are quality of life issues. AE has advertised those kinds of upgrade times for as long as I can remember. Clearly personal choice and it's very respectable. Now, ask the same question of Mesaba FOs... It's a VERY tough pill to swallow over here.

MM

 

[CX880]

Obviously there are quality of life issues.

MM

How much quality of life can they take if they make 30 bucks an hour?

 

[CA1900]

Ask any CommutAir captain.

 

[Mesabi Miner]

I don't know. Single guys and gals without dependants living in ORD or DFW? Maybe their living circumstances are more important than the bottom line. What is your hypothesis?

MM

 

[RJP]

It ain't all about the money.

 

[Frequency]

Well, probably a couple of reasons.

1) They probably live in ORD or DFW and dont want to move.

2) once you pass the 3-4 year mark, its do or die. All their friends have invested 3 years in another regional of their choice and are about to upgrade, so their pride wont let them start all over at the bottom again, so they decide to stick it out.

Then the next step is the 7-8 year upgrade and if you have invested that much time in your job and finally become Captain, you want to enjoy it for a while so your definitely not interested in going anywhere else, its the most money you have ever made flying. Then before you know it your sixty OR maybe your hoping for the flow-through to AA (does that still exist anymore).

The reason you wont see many AE pilots at places like JB, Airtran, CO, SWA (well maybe a few at SWA...its a Texas thing), is because they have about 7000 hours of SIC and dont meet the minimums, and when they finally do upgrade they dont want to give that up too easily to start all over at the bottom.

 

[mack82]

I'll agree that it is very respectable. They obviously have a good life outside of flying in their base.

 

[Mesabi Miner]

Well, probably a couple of reasons.

1) They probably live in ORD or DFW and dont want to move.

2) once you pass the 3-4 year mark, its do or die. All their friends have invested 3 years in another regional of their choice and are about to upgrade, so their pride wont let them start all over at the bottom again, so they decide to stick it out.

Then the next step is the 7-8 year upgrade and if you have invested that much time in your job and finally become Captain, you want to enjoy it for a while so your definitely not interested in going anywhere else, its the most money you have ever made flying. Then before you know it your sixty OR maybe your hoping for the flow-through to AA (does that still exist anymore).

The reason you wont see many AE pilots at places like JB, Airtran, CO, SWA (well maybe a few at SWA...its a Texas thing), is because they have about 7000 hours of SIC and dont meet the minimums, and when they finally do upgrade they dont want to give that up too easily to start all over at the bottom.

Very well said. I believe you hit the nail on the head. I presently fall into your Reason #2.... Every day I pray for change. Whether it be a furlough notice, an interview date, liquidation, or more airplanes causing an upgrade. I'm afraid I'm getting tired of singing the XJ FO Blues... But, tomorrow is another day and who knows what might happen!

Cheers,

MM

 

[drinksonme]

Worked for AE, left for another company and have never looked back. The quality of life at AE is not that good. My friend that was hired with me at AE 2 years ago is still on reserve. What a great place huh? By the way, they have 8 yr FO's who have been displaced and do not know when they will upgrade again. Could be 2 to 3 years, so do the math, it could be 10-11 years for a new hire and that being positive. Eagle has good people in a bad situation and it is sad.

 

[belchfire]

AMR...world's largest and most dysfunctional airline holding company...I think that says it all. I will never forget those inane banners of lies they hung up in the Lambert terminal..."Two great airlines, one great future". I don't know how some of those people can sleep at night for the shame of it, let alone have the unmitigated gall to be seen in public.

 

[Pilot1625]

Dysfunctional, yes. Been in bankruptcy, no. *sigh* what is really better these days though?

 

[av8tor4239]

I have been a prop Fo at ASA for 4 years.. Still 150 numbers from Upgrade.. (I am getting 70 seat pay to do it though).. it still sucks.... Upgrade at ASA is well over 5 years now.. probably close to 7 or 8 years.

Eagle guys are not alone now.. ASA is right there with them...

 

[CX880]

The only way this would make any sense is if AA has some kind of prefferential hiring with AE or something. I don't think anybody in their right mind would care if AE is based where they live, most would rather get that pic time, especially now a days. Plus the've go some low pay too, I can't believe they are able to find Captains, since I would imagine most probably leave before upgrading.

 

[I Hate Freight]

The only way this would make any sense is if AA has some kind of prefferential hiring with AE or something. I don't think anybody in their right mind would care if AE is based where they live, most would rather get that pic time, especially now a days. Plus the've go some low pay too, I can't believe they are able to find Captains, since I would imagine most probably leave before upgrading.

You are wrong on just about everything here. The AE to AA "flow thorough" agreement is dead. Not everyone is after the PIC time. And yes, base DOES matter.

You can't believe they are able to find Captains? Eagle captains make between $75-100k. There are plenty of guys willing to stick it out.

Eagle pay is better than most regionals. $35 for 3rd year jet f/o/. Our reserve schedules have 11 days off and hard lines have between 12-18 days off. Plenty of OT here for the taking, usually. Most reserve is "at home" with a two-hour call out.

I was only on reserve for three months and after nearly three years I hold some nice lines with a good QOL. I work at least 90 hours a month and will make almost $45k this year NOT including per diem. I'm home 14 or 15 days per month, I've never even met the Chief pilot and the company NEVER calls me.

Not a bad gig, could be better but still not bad.

 

[stooge]

I have been a prop Fo at ASA for 4 years.. Still 150 numbers from Upgrade.. (I am getting 70 seat pay to do it though).. it still sucks.... Upgrade at ASA is well over 5 years now.. probably close to 7 or 8 years.

Eagle guys are not alone now.. ASA is right there with them...

Yes the answer to this question is that sh*t happens and you get stuck. And yes, after 3 or 4 years at the same place and finally making a livable wage (about $35/hr) it can be difficult to jump ship and go to skywest's slave wage pay the first year.

Even worse is finally upgrading and being sent back down to f/o. Trans States has sent over 40 captains back to the right seat, including a couple of guys with '01 seniority. This industry can suck

 

[NRHPilot]

Worked for AE, left for another company and have never looked back. The quality of life at AE is not that good. My friend that was hired with me at AE 2 years ago is still on reserve. What a great place huh? By the way, they have 8 yr FO's who have been displaced and do not know when they will upgrade again. Could be 2 to 3 years, so do the math, it could be 10-11 years for a new hire and that being positive. Eagle has good people in a bad situation and it is sad.

Actually new hire FO's will probably upgrade in much less time than us 6+ year FO's. About 10 years ago they had 7 year FO's and guys right behind them on the seinority list upgraded in about 18 months. Some actually sooner if they went to the Rock. So yes right now our most junior captain is 8/22/99 hire date in the Saab. However, I would hope guys hired today don't have to wait 7 years like some of us.

 

[Dodge]

Even worse is finally upgrading and being sent back down to f/o. Trans States has sent over 40 captains back to the right seat, including a couple of guys with '01 seniority. This industry can suck

This is straight out of the Mesaba playbook. Upgrade for a year and then go back to "required crew memeber". It is tough when you make $40K has a FO to leave and start over at another crumby commuter, but that decision gets a heck of a lot easier after one has been a CA and then has to take a step back in their career after a wait of 6 years to be a Saab CA in dirty DTW.

 

[belchfire]

This is straight out of the Mesaba playbook. Upgrade for a year and then go back to "required crew memeber". It is tough when you make $40K has a FO to leave and start over at another crumby commuter, but that decision gets a heck of a lot easier after one has been a CA and then has to take a step back in their career after a wait of 6 years to be a Saab CA in dirty DTW.

At least there is the hot waitress at the Wheat and Rye!

 

[CA1900]

That, and they use the proper Cheez Whiz for their cheesesteaks. I always feel sick walking out of that place. But in a good way.

 

[jwes]

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=2E6C2A698D51154A

 

[BlackPilot628]

At least there is the hot waitress at the Wheat and Rye!

All of the Hot ones have left. There is nothing like that Big Daddy burger and $1.25 buck drafts!