Who is the GOAT?

[WillFlyFoCookie]

Just to start a little debate, in your opinion who is the Greatest of All Time? Pilot that is. I'm sure this has been talked about many a time before on these boards but I thought I'd just have a little fun.

So, what do you think? My personal opinion and this may seem too obvious and main stream but I must say Charles Lindbergh. His transatlantic flight from New York to Paris really did make him the most famous man of the 20th Century. His sheer audacity to even try something like that is so remarkable. He went in a single engine plane and solo which everyone else at the time thought was crazy. Everybody was attempting or going to attempt the flight using planes with at least 2 engines and at least 2 crew.

I know it's hard to compare because there have been and currently are so many amazing men and women we can talk about.

 

[UPSer]

I vote for the Guat.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Pappy, of course.

 

[Lead Sled]

Interesting question. It would hate to chose on individual, but if I was pinned down I'd probably have to say Jimmie Dolittle. IMHO, Lindberg was flat lucky if you ask me. All of us who fly IFR owe a lot to Dolittle.

Lead Sled

 

[English]

Pappy, of course.

Uh huh...

 

[LJDRVR]

Depends on what you mean by greatest. If it's greatest pilot in the sense of biggest contribution to aviation, then you'd arguably have a tie between Jimmy and Charles. (If you have to ask the last names, then turn in your certificate.)

If you're talking in terms of the best stick, then after myself I'd have to vote for Bob Hoover. Maybe Pete Conrad a close second. Anybody who's ever seen Charlie Culp's flying farmer act in a J-3 knows there are a host of anonymous practitioners who can fly the he11 out of an airplane.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

All of us who fly IFR owe a lot to Dolittle.

And quite a few others owe a lot to him as well. For an outstanding read, check out "Four Came Home". A great account of the Doolittle Tokyo raid, and an even better account of what sort of man Doolittle was when you read about what he did years after the war in helping those Raiders who were captured and held. Nobody will ever know who the best stick is or was, but the character and accomplishiments of Doolittle put him right up on the short list of aviation "greats".

 

[westwind]

Doolittle has a great autobiography as well. "I Could Never Be So Lucky Again" (I think that's it). Even his childhood was interesting. He did a lot for aviation and the US.

 

[Gatorman]

I'm no pilot, but I play one online...

Jimmie Dolittle has to be the pilot with the biggest knads and therefore has my respect.
Charles Limburg...lucky. If you think about it, he was only as good as the fuel he carried. Started off flying freight (mail runs).

Best stick...Chuck Yeager. Fighter and test pilot.
(Probably #2 for knads)

 

[House_X]

I think Chuck Yeager stated several times that Bob Hoover is the best pilot he's ever seen or flown with.

Seeing what he used to do with the Twin Commander he flew in airshows, this is easy to believe...I still remember those airshows and seeing those props standing still and he's still performing acrobatics.
Can't top a letter of recommendation signed by Yeager!!!!

 

[katanabob]

Bob Hoover is a living legend, as is Scott Crossfield.

 

[No Delay]

Everyone has certainly mentioned some greats. Seems like we really haven't seen any "greats" in many years. That was until just a few days ago.

I will have to put my vote Rutan. He is our modern day pioneer. He is taking us to space! Just think, 5 to 10 years from now we could be flying passengers to space.

 

[enigma]

I vote for Duke Elegant! At least he's not an arrogant dude like Yeager.

Seriously, the best ever was probably some Russian or German that we never heard of, but Bob Hoover seems to be universally accepted as the best "natural pilot" in the Western World.

I don't know if Doolittle was truly a great stick, but he danged sure possessed a pair. He deserves a great deal of respect for his accomplishments. I used to think that having survived flying the GeeBee R1 put him close to the top, but since Delmar Benjamin reproduced one and made it look easy I've come to think that maybe the R1 wasn't quite as tough as we all thought. Regardless, Doolittle is a true hero.

Here's my list of great stick and rudder guys:
Hoover first,
Duane Cole,
Sean Tucker,
Orville Wright,
Art Scholl,
and Frank Price.

Great achievers kudo's goes to:
Doolittle,
Crossfield,
Lindberg,
Wiley Post,
Lincoln Beachy,
Glenn Curtis,
and anybody who ever got shot at and lived,


regards,
enigma

 

[enigma]

I will have to put my vote Rutan. He is our modern day pioneer.

I doubt that Burt Rutan would put himself on a list of great pilots.

What Burt Rutan deserves, is recognition as the greatest innovator in post Wright Bros aviation history outside of Bill Lear. I put him ahead of Lear, but you've got to give Lear his due as being a great thinker.

Rutan's genius is figuring out a way to keep things simple. His original design, the VariViggen, was metal. He recognized the problems of complexity and came up with the moldless composite system of construction which he applied to the Vari-Eze and subsequent designs. As they say, the rest is history.

BTW, even his design for the Starship was successful (sharp eyes will have recognized the 80% Starship POC, flying formation with SpaceshipOne on approach to Mojave). It was the FAA's certification overkill that doomed the Starship.

regards,
enigma

 

[Lead Sled]

Everyone has certainly mentioned some greats. Seems like we really haven't seen any "greats" in many years. That was until just a few days ago.

I will have to put my vote Rutan. He is our modern day pioneer. He is taking us to space! Just think, 5 to 10 years from now we could be flying passengers to space.

There's no doubt about his engineering abilities - personally, I believe he ranks right up near the top. However, he's not a pilot of any great renown. It's probably impossible to say who the greatest "stick" is - like enigma said, it's probably some guy that we've never heard of. (Actually, I lay no claim to being the world's best pilot. I probably don't even rank in the top 5. )

As for guys like Hoover and Yeager, there's no doubt about it - they're excellent sticks... but they've also had some good PR as well. I still cast my vote for Dolittle as the one individual whose overall contribution has done the most to advance aviation.

Lead Sled

 

[BankAccount=0$]

I'd have to say that most of the greats have already been covered. Yeager, Hoover and Crossfield are all obviously extremely accomplished pilots. But from the stand point of pure courage (or just plain stupidity) in aviation I'd have to make my list read as such:

1) Yuri Gagarin....."Ok Comrade, just climb up there and don't worry about a thing"

2) Col. Joe Kittenger.... Sure a lot of people have flown up around 80-120K+ feet, but how many have actually departed the aircraft that took them there (on purpose that is)

3) Larry Walters (aka lawnchair Larry).... Larry is my choice for the grassroots award of the 20th century. Forget about all the homebuilders who work from plans and carefully manufactured kits. Larry got some balloons, a lawnchair, his CB radio, and a BB gun for altitude control. Google his name and read about his flight, truely awesome.

 

[No Delay]

Good one, BankAccount! Lawnchair Larry definately deserves a nod.

Excellent!

 

[dav8or]

I don't know if Doolittle was truly a great stick, but he danged sure possessed a pair. He deserves a great deal of respect for his accomplishments. I used to think that having survived flying the GeeBee R1 put him close to the top, but since Delmar Benjamin reproduced one and made it look easy I've come to think that maybe the R1 wasn't quite as tough as we all thought. Regardless, Doolittle is a true hero.

QUOTE]

Doolittle is the only person to win all three of the Cup Races. The first to fly IFR and not to mention what he did during WWII.

 

[English]

Sean Tucker and Paggy Wagstaff.

 

[PHX767]

In honor of Gordo Cooper ...

"You're lookin' at him!"

 

[BD King]

OK. Since this is my area, as I publish aviation history, I get a chance to put my two cents into the pot. I think the question should be into era's. First of all would be prior to WWI, and that would probably be Glenn Curtiss.

Until, say 1946, it would be, without a doubt, Jimmy Doolittle.

Until the space age? I would nominate Bob Hoover.

Space age? It is hands down. Neil Armstrong.

We all have a bias toward the American aviator, but I will tell you that there were a few Frenchmen that would put Lindberg to shame. One of which, google him, is Jean Mermoz.

 

[Lead Sled]

Good one, BankAccount! Lawnchair Larry definately deserves a nod.

Wasn't he nominated for the Darwin Awards. Actually, he committed suicide a few years ago.

'Sled

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Charles Limburg...lucky.

Didn't they name a cheese after that guy?

 

[Lead Sled]

Didn't they name a cheese after that guy?

Charles Cheese??? His friends call him Chuck E.

 

[WillFlyFoCookie]

Quick question: What distinguishes the Rutan brothers Dick and Burt from each other. I may have this totally wrong and I apologize for not keeping up on this better but is it Burt who has designed this whole Space Ship One thing (which by the way is so amazing!)? And was it Dick who was one of the pilots of the Voyager (possibly built by Burt?) that flew around the world? If this is the case, then it would seem like Burt is more of the thinker/builder/inventor and Dick is more of the pilot. Although I'm sure they are both excellent pilots and have contributed volumes to the betterment of Aviaition.

 

[enigma]

Quick question: What distinguishes the Rutan brothers Dick and Burt from each other.

Burt is an obviously successful engineer, business owner, visionary, and inventor. Dick is a Vietnam era fighter pilot (I don't know how successful, but he survived if that means anything), who flew his brothers design, the Voyager (now residing in the NASM) around the world without stopping for fuel. Dick made an attempt at politics, but has pretty well dropped out of sight.

In Dicks defense, he did spend eight or so days in an airplane (that had a crew compartment the size of a bathtub), accompanied by a woman who apparently hated him. That was some achievement. They were life partners, engaged, shacked-up, when the flight was dreamed up, but the pressures of the pursuit apparently got to them and they grew apart. Very apart. I saw something that indicated that it took them over ten years to come to some sort of reconciliation. It's actually pretty sad.

enigma

 

[Vector4fun]

In Dicks defense, he did spend eight or so days in an airplane (that had a crew compartment the size of a bathtub), accompanied by a woman who apparently hated him. That was some achievement.

I'd heard there was some tension between them, but if that's true, I'd nominate Dick for the Nobel Peace Prize. It's hard enough to live in the same STATE with a woman that hates you....



Doolittle for biggest achievements,

Hoover for best stick.

 

[VNugget]

The Mercury 7 should probably be somewhere in there.

And as for a little change in pace, how about Carl Boenish, the father of modern BASE jumping??

 

[pilot_guy]

the best...

Erich Hartmann.

German WWII pilot. Racked up over 340 victories (I don't know the exact number) and none of them were from the Spanish Civil War. He has the record for aerial victories for all time. His victories were in an Me-109, an aircraft some dismiss as "outdated" by the end of the war. In addition, he got shot down six times, and after the war, spent 10 years as a POW in the hands of the Russians.

Gotta be a tough ol' goat to live through all of that.

 

[VNugget]

Just thought this was neat... some of Chuck Yeagar's WWII exploits