Which aircraft to get PPL in?

[Hawker1]

I have found three flight schools that I can get my PPL from this semester. One offers training in the Cessna 152. Another offers training in a Diamond Katana, and the third offers training in a 2001 model Alarus.

The first school, with the -152, has a much lower per hour aircraft rate at $69 with instruction rate at $30.

The second school, that flies the Katanas (that I'll admit are much cooler than the -152, nevertheless) has an aircraft rate of $82/hour and instruction rate of $32.50/hour.

The third school, flying the Alarus, offers a rate of $82/hour for the aircraft, and $25/hour for the instructor.

What's the best deal? Are these rates competitive with ones you guys see all the time? Obviously, the Cessna 152 is the cheapest way to go. When I talked to the CFII at the school with the 152, she said that it's better to get your PPL in a small aircraft like the 152, so I'll know what the wind and stuff feels like on the aircraft... said it would make me a better pilot. Is she trying to sell me something, or is she for real?

The school with Katanas, is at a smaller controlled airport just outside of BNA. Their rates are higher, but their cadre of instructors is pretty hard to beat. One is an Army Reserve Apache pilot, while the others are either full or part time. I like the overall look of the Katana, and I like to yoke between the legs. Admittingly, this is the school I like the most just by a little introduction over the phone and aircraft. I'm not sure I have the money it takes afford this school or not. What do you guys think?

Finally, the third with the Alarus. I have to admit. When I talked to the instrcutor over the phone, I didn't know what an Alarus was! I checked out the website, and it "looks" good to go. But, since I know nothing about the aircraft and its ability to train piltos, I thought I needed to ask you. This flight school is at an uncontrolled airport, which I was told by the Cessna 152 CFII that it was hard to transfer from being trained in uncontrolled, and then having to fly into a controlled airspace. This flight school is closest to my school. That's the nice thing about it. This school offers a financial assistance program. It's here: www.pilotfinance.com

I really need you guys advice about which school I should take. I really like the second one, with the Katanas, but they're a lot more expensive than the 152. What are your assessments and words of wisdom to some dumb no nothing like me? Also, are there any other PPL financial assistance programs besides the one above and SallieMae? Thanks a ton.
God Bless,
Hawker

 

[Mogus]

When I talked to the CFII at the school with the 152, she said that it's better to get your PPL in a small aircraft like the 152, so I'll know what the wind and stuff feels like on the aircraft... said it would make me a better pilot.

She's full of $hit. But other than that, if she seems personable, knowledgeable, and someone you'd feel comfortable flying with, I'd say go with the cheaper C-152s. When you're a private pilot, you can easily switch over to the Katana, or better yet, some high performance airplanes and not have blown all that money flying in the more expensive aircraft.

 

[great cornholio]

Training in the 152 does not make you a better pilot the only advantage to the 152 is the money you will save. Also training at an uncontrolled airfield will not set you back that much either. If you plan on going past your PPL and getting your instrument rating then you have to deal with ATC anyways so you will learn the ATC aspect soon enough. Plus to get your PPL you have to do 3 landings at a controlled airport so you will have atleast been exposed to ATC.

Learning to fly is a real challenge. In order for you to get the most out of it, it has to be fun and convienient. If you really like the staff at the school with the Katana then go ahead and fly there. If you dont like the school then you won't learn as much in each lesson and you will end up spending more money in the long run anyways. Like I said a few months ago to someone else each school has its own personality and you have to go fly at a school that has the same personality that you do. It sounds like you really like the staff at the Katana school so I would go there. Even though it costs more per hour you will learn more in a single lesson when you are having fun so in the long run the cost will be about the same.

Oh yeah does that school with the Katana have any cheaper aircraft that you could use? If they do then use that to get the training then move up to the Katana after you get your rating. Also I always recommended that the student try to get out to the airport at least 2-3 times a week. Less than that and we will have to re-teach you alot of stuff at each lesson (so that means more money). So long story short even though the 152 is the cheapest per hour it does not mean that it will be cheapest in the long run. You have to really like the school that your at and the school has to be close enough to home that you can commit to 2-3 lessons a week.

 

[IP076]

Go with whichever one you feel the most comfortable with. You'll learn more.

If you're worried about affording the slightly more expensive one, you should be worried about the other one too! One thing I've learned is that you rarely ever get anything for the "As advertised" price in Aviation!

I'll admit, I'm an airplane buff, and I've never heard of that Alarus until you brought it up!

Oh yeah, just to set one thing right, there are no such things as controlled and uncontrolled airports. There is controlled and uncontrolled airspace, and towered and non towered airports!

However, if you learn to fly at a non towered airport, you shouldn't have any problem (with adequate instruction) flying at a towered airport.

 

[jergar999]

The Alarus looks like a Beech Sierra snuck up on a Mooney and had its nasty way.

 

[dmspilot00]

I think EUT hit the nail on the end.

You do feel the wind more in a 152 than, say, a Piper Warrior or 172, but the 152 and Katana and that other plane are all pretty comparable and it won't make a big enough difference to be the main factor in your decision on where to fly.

I know someone who says that 152 actually has more room than the Katana. And I've also read stories of people who trained in the Katana having a hard time transitioning to other aircraft. Does the school offering the Katana have the 4-seat version (Star) available for rent?

Towered vs. nontowered airport won't mean much difference in skill. I learned to fly at a nontowered airport and didn't have any problems transitioning to Towered.

People who learn to fly at towered airports have a hard time flying into nontowered airports just as much as people who learned to fly at nontowered airports have a hard time flying into towered airports. It won't make a difference.

If the towered airport is busy, it may mean delays in getting into and out of the airport, but since it would be cheaper then it would probably equal out in the end.

As EUT said, your best bet is to find the best instructor first and then go from there. The instructor will make much, much more of a difference in your training than the type of plane and the controlledness (sorry if I made up a word there) of the airport. If you start at one school and decide you don't like it you can always switch. It's really not a big deal.

 

[Hawker1]

I really appreciate all the advice you guys have given me. I definately overlooked the importance of the instructor. The flight school with the Katana doesn't have a cheaper plane to rent. Yes, there is a four-seater, but if I go here, I'll end up taking one of the two-seaters. I'm going to schedule a discovery flight with this school, and see how I like it. Thanks again for all the replies...

 

[sky37d]

Further,
The comment about flying 2-3 a week is EXTREMELY important. I didn't realize it until I was well along. I went when I had a few bucks, instead of saving up and going at it. As a result, I went through 5 instructors, 3 airplanes. I also accepted the instructor they through at me, until I got totally frustrated, and was ready to quit. A different instructor made ALL the difference.

 

[great cornholio]

I forgot to mention key loans on my last post. Check out www.key.com . Hopefully they have something that can help you out.

 

[JCJ]

152

purely for tradition - it's trained a kazillion pilots

 

[bobbysamd]

Training aircraft

I've trained primary students in 172s and A36 Bonanzas. The former is a ubiquitous four-seat, high-wing fixed-gear simple single; the latter is a multi-seat, low-wing, complex/high-performance single, with retractable gear, controllable prop, and good power. I mention these aircraft to make the point that it doesn't matter that much in which aircraft you train. If you are trained properly you can fly any airplane, with a proper checkout.

I second the comments above about the importance of a good instructor. In particular, I second the comments about ground time. Good and thorough pre and post-flight briefings are vital to the learning experience. Pre and post briefings are so vital that some schools build them in to their FAA-approved flight courses. It's a cliche that an airplane is a terrible classroom, but it's true. You will have days where you feel you learned nothing from a flight, but when you and your instructor sit down afterwards and debrief it you will be surprised at how much you did learn. You give that experience short shrift by not putting in ground time.

Choose the airplane that you can best afford. Choose the best instructor money can buy. You will be money and time ahead in the long run. Good luck with your training.

 

[Dan CFI/CFII]

I will throw something new into the mix for you...

The cheapest airplane to learn to fly in very well may cost more per hour. I have worked at an FBO with a lot of old (cheaper) 172s, and new 172s. The folks who decided to fly the new airplanes consistently ended up with thier liscenses for less money than those who tried to go the cheap route.

My experience is that old airplanes break, a lot more than new ones. If you at going to make any real efficient progress, you need to be flying 2-3 times a week. If you show up to the airport and the 152 is broken, you can bet on spending ten minutes of your next flight reviewing older stuff that you otherwise would probably not have had to. Ten minutes at a hundred bucks an hour adds up pretty quick.

Still, the most important consideration is the instructor. An airplane flies like any other airplane, but teachers aren't created equal. One of the biggest considerations you should have is the longevity of the CFI. It sounds great to fly with a corporate pilot CFI, but are they trying to move on anytime soon? A young CFI can easily be your best bet, but they also can end up costing you through thier inexperience. Meeting these people will go a LONG way towards giving you the information you need to know who you are most comfortable with.

Dan

 

[mizzouguy]

Keep shopping, they are all junk especially the Katana

 

[Publishers]

critical economics

To me one of the most significant things in the cost is frequency of flight at the beginning.

Back when we got started, we actually bought an aircraft and went almost everyday. That meant there was not as much relearning process going on. Secondly, we made it clear that we were going through the whole process. We made sure that we had an instrument instructor and we flew with a mind towards instrument flying from the get go. Marginal weather, we still took instruction.

In the end, this approach turned out to be the least expensive. We sold the aircraft the day we got our ticket and bought an Arrow to get our instrument and complex out of the way. Same thing and then an Aztec. Never did we sell an aircraft for less than we had originally paid.

Now even if you cannot buy one, I still recommend this approach. We came out ahead on the aircraft and ahead on the instructor.

 

[goaliemn]

Instructor makes all the difference

I had one instructor for about 85% of my PPL training. It was almost frustrating when I went out with someone else. Near the end of my training, if she wasn't around, I'd schedule time and come back. I walked out to the FBO when I was looking to get started and she walked right up, and was friendly. She was busy, but still said hi and showed me around a bit. I had acouple of medical questions and she answered, and I took her card. 3 months later, I called and she had an opening so up we went. I spent about $15K there on my private (newer 172s and I got stuck on landings ) because she was nice and the planes were well kept.

Near the middle of my training she went to Hawaii for acouple of weeks and I had acouple of different instructors during that time. I remember one flight I went up with one guy, we took off and within 10 minutes I asked to return to the airport and I unscheduled myself with him. I wasn't able to fly for afew days because of it, but I didn't feel "right" with him.

 

[Fly BI]

Since everyone else covered all the same things I think, here's my $0.02:

Take the 152. If you want to feel better about flying in controlled airspace then find a Class D airport nearby and fly there as often as possible when training. Ultimately, save your cash for the things that matter more, like twin time. Good luck.

 

[Timebuilder]

First, I'd ask: what is your goal? That has a lot to do with it. Will you get your PPL and then rent or own a particular brand or model? That might be your best bet, from day one.

I like the 152 idea, as it would be affordable. Not much room, though.

The Katana has an indicator between the seats. If it's too hot out, you can't go flying. Oopps.

You want to be a professional pilot? Fly three or more times a week, and get it done. Can you afford to buy a plane, or write off the expense as a "company plane"? Go for it. A PPL in an inexpensive plane is a good as a PPL in a Bonanza. Unless you will routinely teach in a Bonanza, like Bobby did a lot, and I did a little, then you don't need a fast, more expensive airplane as a trainer.


Does that help?

 

[Hawker1]

To clear things up, I'm getting my PPL because it's more or less a "requirement" to apply to the AF and ANG. I have no intentions on getting my instrument or any ratings after my PPL. This is just something that has to be done, and I'm trying to get it done with the least amount of money taken from my pocket... I do look forward to getting it, but I also need to get PRK surgery after I get my PPL, so if that's not burning a hole in your pocket, then I don't know what is. Thanks for all the advice.

 

[Timebuilder]

Do your research about the PRK. I have heard stories about some guys who see "halos" around objects (not a religious experience, typhoon!!) or have several months that the FAA wants to see as "stabilized" vision before granting a medical.

I'd contact both AOPA medical and the AF flight surgeon before undertaking any procedure.

 

[Hawker1]

Oh yea, I'm going to make sure I check with the head hancho flight surgeon on PRK. Anyone know of getting in touch with him? What's AOPA? I have all the documentation about the AF's policy and waiver process. You have to remain stable for 3 months (for JSUPT applicants) before you can apply for the waiver.Thanks for the heads up.