Where to fly?

[UND84]

Hello,
I am currently a freshman attending The University of North Dakota working on my instrument rating. I lived in the puget sound area of Washington State for 19 years before I decided to come here. I earned my private pilot certificate part 61 at a local fbo back at home. I was told that this was a great school and was on par with Embry Riddle. I decided to attend here. I did not do a whole lot of research before deciding to attend this university. Please do not make this post about which of the above schools is better . The purpose of writing this post is because of some questions I have. I have always wanted to fly and I love flying. I want to fly for a living. Obviously, there are numerous ways to become a professional pilot. Numerous times I have considered leaving this school to go elsewhere. I have been told that I should not leave because this is an excellent flight school. I fully agree that they have an extremely strong program that I could succeed in if I choose to stay here for the next four years. But, I have very little fun in Grand Forks, N.D. It is the most boring state in the United States in my opinion. The flying is hard here and that is good but why am I really here? I know that you must get a degree and I want to know if there is a better option. Why spend time in college in a setting that just makes you unhappy? Aren't you supposed to have some of the best years of your life in college? One person once said that I want to leave because I miss my home. Yes, I miss home but shouldn't I leave so that I can find a school environment/flying environment that makes me happy? The flatland here is not normal to me, and the people here are much different than the people I am used to out west. But yes, I do get along with people, and I know that in being a professional pilot, you often work with new people all the time. But the students here are just not a lot like me. The whole drinking culture here is not my thing and the students do not seem to have school on their mind. And you also fly and live where the airline tells you. And you are gone from family on a frequent basis. I know this and I can deal with that. Others may disagree but I know that I can. But why not enjoy my college years by flying elsewhere. I want to become a great pilot in a great environment. I am a hard worker, worked very hard in high school, and have had to work less hard here. I just do not feel comfortable here. Pilots come from all areas of this nation, from many backgrounds. If I meet the same requirements for each certificate that students at UND are required to meet, and I fly at a reputable location, and I receive my degree, how much would I really be set back? I am confused and I ask you for your opinion. Thank you very much.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

somebody needs a hug.



when you packed up and moved to NORTH F'n DAKOTA did you think it was going to be the social mecca of the USA?

miss mommy?, dont like the drinking?......geesh man, maybe you should drop the pilot training and pick up home ec??

pick your pride up off the floor boy.

I suggest www.oprah.com

 

[roundout]

i've been at UND since fall 2000. you're right - it sucks. you have to be really dedicated to finish here. i can't count the number of people i've known that have come and gone over the years. they drop like flies. i'm still here for a few reasons. 1 - i waited too long to decide whether or not it was worth transferring, now i'm 1 semester from being finished, which makes it dumb to leave now. 2 - the UND reputation is probably the best out there. 3 - it's easy to get as much money as you need in loans here. my girlfriend (also from western WA, coincidentally) was here last year and left for metro state in denver, and has had a whale of a time trying to get money there. the UND program is so well organized that getting money is almost too easy.

the people here are nuts, the town sucks, the school is filled with a lot of aviation losers, kids that eat, sleep, breathe, and party aviation. it's really annoying. i don't blame you for wanting to leave - if you want to make the jump, don't wait long fussing about it. just cut your losses and go, because certainly nobody would think less of you for not being able to handle this B. S. town. that said, i still think UND, for all its shortcomings and hardships, is one of the best values for your training dollar. the staff is, for the mostpart, top notch, the classes are good (except for generals, but what do you expect? UND is a 3rd rate state U) and the equipment is second to none. the maintenance is impeccable (worked at mx for over a year part time). most of the instructors are inbred, that is, trained UND and instruct UND which makes them good at teaching at UND but not necessarily elsewhere, which is why i'm leaving as soon as i get my CFII and diploma.

wow, that was long. hope it helped.

edit: i can count at least 5 people off the top of my head who've come to UND from ERAU, mainly prescott, but daytona too. according to them ERAU is utter poo....huge waste of money. i obviously don't know, i only know what i hear.

 

[FADECtoBLACK]

You ladies should have gone to Purdue. West Lafayette, Indiana IS the "social mecca of the USA."

 

[roundout]

purdue was too expensive for me. plus i didn't want to go there.

 

[7B2]

If I was only certified in "therapy"

story of my life....

 

[Dutch]

Originally posted by roundout
edit: i can count at least 5 people off the top of my head who've come to UND from ERAU, mainly prescott, but daytona too. according to them ERAU is utter poo....huge waste of money. i obviously don't know, i only know what i hear.

I remember the mass exoduous from ERAU PRC to UND...I also remember that a number of them came back with their tails between their legs. Regardless, I dont think switching to another 4 year university is going to solve the issue. Give it another year, Freshman year sucks for alot of people.

Dutch

BTW if the instructors at UND are inbred and not suited for teaching elsewhere why are you getting your CFI-A/I at UND? Wouldn't that make you inbred and not suited for a non-UND school/FBO?

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

look at it this way, Most flight schools are like sitting reserve for an airline except you can drink!!!

If the scene is boring or not your thing, maybe professional flying is not your bag. Wait till your all alone in an empty crash pad for a week or so! Talk about excitement. And I cannot count how many thousands of hours of my life has been sucked away while sitting on a productivity break in some crew room or FBO somewhere. Heck, waiting in line in LGA with one shut down to try to make the takeoff with legal fuel has to count for a hundred hours or so!!!! And pilots are the folks that hotels.com should use in their ads about knowing all the different rooms......you will see every shape, color, and size of them!!!! I think I can identify hotel toilets simply by placing my buns on one now!!!!!! "Lets see, small hole, limited johnson space, and low to the floor.......must be a motel six!!"

I will admit that UND does not appear to be a garden spot, (Didn't go there) But your descriptions pretty much sums up most of the pro pilot schools in the nation. Live, sleep ,and party aviation.

However I wouldn't trade it for anything. Ups and downs, its all pretty much good....as long as you keep the right attitude.

Bottom line, if you are the type to get home sick or miss your family and friends badly, then aviation is not for you. If you can meet folks, and strike up a conversation with just about any one then it is a lot of fun. Off days are like gold in this business, and fortunatly (for the most part) once you have been in the game for a bit you have the money to make the most of those off days. And for the most part you never bring work home with you.....not many well paying professions can say that, well used to be well paid....well see what the next few years bring.

Just an opinion, I make no guarantees about your results.........Heck I can't even guarantee that I will be employed next week the way it is nowadays!!!


I always just try to be able to burn enough kerosene during the week to be able to fish and drink beer on the weekends!!!!!!!

 

[labbats]

If you want to enjoy college, go to a college you'll enjoy.

Fly later.

 

[pilotman2105]

Perhaps if you don't eat, live, and breathe aviation, UND isn't for you. That and the fact that it's up in the middle of no where are the two reasons that I choose not to go there. I am finishing up at a university where a good portion of my friends are not majoring in aviation. It's nice to be able to talk something other than airplanes every now and then.

As for your problem now, get involved. "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." You may find that once you meet people and feel more comfortable, that you enjoy UND. Go to hockey games (big thing up there, I know). Join the flying team and various other clubs. Make the most of your time in college, 'cause it's the only place where you get to party, sleep with random people, drink, and be social WITHOUT having to worry about a job and paying bills (aside from classes and tuition).

 

[roundout]

BTW if the instructors at UND are inbred and not suited for teaching elsewhere why are you getting your CFI-A/I at UND? Wouldn't that make you inbred and not suited for a non-UND school/FBO?

CFI and CFII are currently requirements for the commercial aviation major. they're thinking about dropping them, but as of yet, they haven't. maybe learning at UND does make me inbred as well, but i like to think that i'll learn more in the long run by leaving UND after i graduate. lots of people hang around here until they have their 1200 or 1500 hours and jump straight to horizon, eagle, piedmont, etc, and that's great (and admittedly appealing in some respects). however, i'm not exactly sure what i want to be when i grow up yet - i want to get out and have some fun with flying while i'm still young enough to do so. there's too much to know about and do with aviation to let it all pass by from FL310 in an RJ doing 400kts.

 

[jumppilot03]

Lots of people in here have the misconception that UND is a all aviation school like Riddle. UND is a North Dakota state school with over 12,000 students. Only about 2,000 of those students are involved in aviation. The rest are nursing, business and every other major that is at other schools. If you dont like North Dakota, its your fault, you knew what you were getting into before you signed up.

 

[pilotman2105]

Girlfriend has a friend attending UND now. Friend says that for all practical purposes, UND is a totally aviation school. Aviation and hockey are about the only two things that people up there understand.

If you don't want to do aviation, see if you can switch majors to something that interests you. You may have to switch schools, but it's better to decide that now as apposed to 2 years from now.

 

[roundout]

i have a feeling that the original poster, since he's from a long way away, came here specifically aviation. same thing for me. if i wanted to switch majors, i'd go elsewhere. but i WANT to be a pilot, which is why i came here. the program, as i explained, is strong. i've learned to look at UND this way - this is 4 (4.5 in my case) years of your life that you are sacrificing to ensure a good career for the next 35 years. if you can keep your chin up and remember why you're here, it's tolerable. if you get caught up in the years of your life that you're giving up your happiness (and sanity, in some cases at some times of the year), chances are the aviation dream would've fallen thru at some later point.

i disagree to a point with the statement made that UND is basically an aviation school. it's only that if you're in aviation. if you're not, it's a totally normal state U. you got your lousy profs, you got your few diamonds-in-the-rough profs, you got your good classes, greek life, partying, arts (kind of lacking, but they try), you have your slackers and your intellectuals. if you're in aviation, you're away from main campus so much after the 1st 3 semesters that it does seem to be like an aviation school, because that's where most of your focus lies. but that could be said for anything else, too. if your major was chem engineering, i'll bet after your generals were pushed aside that you'd find yourself at the math & sciences buildings a lot more than elsewhere on campus.

if you can't adapt and be creative here, you'll wash out. it's rough, especially the first year. if you want it bad enough, you'll figure out ways to make it livable. i want it bad enough.

 

[Dutch]

CFI and CFII are currently requirements for the commercial aviation major. they're thinking about dropping them, but as of yet, they haven't. maybe learning at UND does make me inbred as well, but i like to think that i'll learn more in the long run by leaving UND after i graduate. lots of people hang around here until they have their 1200 or 1500 hours and jump straight to horizon, eagle, piedmont, etc, and that's great (and admittedly appealing in some respects). however, i'm not exactly sure what i want to be when i grow up yet - i want to get out and have some fun with flying while i'm still young enough to do so. there's too much to know about and do with aviation to let it all pass by from FL310 in an RJ doing 400kts.

It makes more sense to me to make them optional. I took the optional CFI and II course at Riddle but ended up teaching outside the university to start with (eventually returned to ERAU after teaching part 61 in Los Angeles) but found that many FBO's gave priority to applicants who had trained with them...makes sense. Anyway, I tell my commercial students to do their CFI training with the company they want to work for. Also, this goes without saying, but you will only learn more by going outside UND if you work for a good company. I worked for 3 different FBO's and found that the more IP's that worked at a given location, the more I learned. Obviously, if the more senior guys enjoy helping out the FNG then you'll get alot out of it but many times having multiple instructors to ask for advice made things better.

Dutch

 

[westy1]

I graduated from UND in 1997 and I hate to say it but if you don't like UND and the aviation program you are going to hate becomming an airline pilot. Suck it up and have some fun now. I was there for four years and I had a blast. I still keep in touch with a bunch of friends and we still laugh about some of the stupid things we did there. If you think for one minute when you get your dream airline job that being based in some crap town where you know nobody and have real responsibility will make it better YOUR WRONG. Enjoy your college life now. Transfering to another school will be the biggest mistake you could make right now. If you are going to run to mommy and daddy every time life sucks get out of aviation ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[THE Flying Ace]

I graduated in 1996 after 4.5 years there. Yes, the town isn't the best and you can watch your dog run away for three days because it is so flat, but I had a blast. All of my closest friends are from college and not a one of them was in aviation. Give it more time; you're only a freshman. My second year is when I really started to have fun. Get a job at any of the businesses there. You will meet a wide variety of people having a job. When I was there, I worked at Sam's Club and a few other places. Fun people and the pay was not bad. Also my degree was aeronautical studies and I never had to get my CFI. I busted out of there with only my commercial and multi.

If you are not sure about aviation right now; the fun begins after school. You'll have to beg, borrow, and steal to build up your flight time. I flew skydivers for free just to get time and got to know some owners of king airs to build up multi time. And then you get a paying flying job that doesn't even come close to paying back all of the debt.

But I love this life. Nothing better that flying. Well, almost nothing.

 

[BoilerUP]

You ladies should have gone to Purdue. West Lafayette, Indiana IS the "social mecca of the USA."

Word.

Plus, here in sunny, beautiful West Lafayette we believe in diversity. We feel our large international student population sets us apart from other universities, and we no doubt have the best student drivers in the countryhttp://tools.ecn.purdue.edu/~dkessler/dden2

I thought about UND and ERAU when I made my decision as well. UND has awesome facilities and the people are nice, along with a great fleet of airplanes, but GFK is like Purgatory. I've never seen land so flat and barren in my life.

ERAU is cool...sunny Flordia, nice weather, beaches - but the male/female ratio was just a little outta whack.

I went with Purdue cuz its a big school but small aviation program, 250 miles from home, and it was a good program. UND would have been much cheaper though, to the tune of 10-15K over four years. But one hour from Indy and two hours from Chi-town is hard to beat, even if we are in the middle of corn country.

My private instructor was from WA state and he went to ERAU-Prescott. Said he liked it alot, except Prescott was boring. Notice a trend developing here? If it comes down to it, go to college somewhere you enjoy and do your flying with ATP or FlightSafety or MAPD or somebody like that when you are done, or during the summers. Best of luck in whatever you do.

 

[labbats]

Let's not forget that you don't have to go to an aviation college to get your ratings. Go nearby your home and get your ratings from the local FBO.

 

[FADECtoBLACK]

Boiler,

I got half way through your first paragraph and I already knew what that link was gonna be.

Oh the drunken nights stumbling through the Discount Den trying to find the perfect mixer for that fifth of Skyy I had sitting at home. At least they didn't go through the front of Harry's... I couldn't imagine the backlash if that were to ever happen.