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Flyingmariner

Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2004
Posts
12
Just can't seem to get any response from employers. I've got 2500 TT meet all the Pt 135 mins and then some. I've been offered a summer job flying a 206. A friend in the airlines says don't be dumb just get on and take it but I'm not so sure as the pay and hours ($100/12/day duty time 3 days/week) are lousy and odd as it may sound I do pretty well as an independent CFII monetarily. Ok I'm an old bastard but that never goes on the resume but in 6 mths I only had one call from an FBO for a Chief CFI job (probably didn't get that because I'm not an MEI). I'm always thinking that with my time I'll at least get a call from a 208 owner, but nothing. I know, insurance says 100 in type. At the point of almost hanging it up and doing something else. Low multi at around 30 doesn't help for those positions. Ok, do I take the C-206 Pt 135 just to get a working history and be happy?
 
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it is unlikely you will get calls from resumes--particularly if you are fairly inexperienced. you have to know people, have intros, make contacts. you need to persue the job more--attack!

sending out resumes is only one part of it.
 
your lack of multi is what's killing you, 30 hours is not enough for even the worst regionals (hmm, worst regionals..nevermind)

plus, I think your resume may be telling a story of your achievements and the employees are leery of hiring an older dude who may be set in his ways by now

get on with the check haulers while you can (check 21), ram air, air net, etc. and get some multi under your belt

that will make you marketable to the regionals, you may get in and get your 121 time and then you're off to the fracs or better 135

as far as your resume, cut down the chatter and anything that may show your age, this way you'll at least get a chance of an interview

don't lie, just expand upon what you've got
 
i did let him know, but he keeps disrespectin'
it's all good though, as long as he pitches off-the wall, liberal agenda and keeps the neo-cons in check



Flechas said:
Hey Vlad, your old avatar was way better, you gonna let EMB170 push you arund like that?
 
Take the job, especially if it's the operator out of Anacortes, WA. I flew 206s and 207s for them and it was very good experience. If it is that company you got an offer from feel free to PM me about it.
 
Age discrimination

Flyingmariner said:
Just can't seem to get any response from employers. I've got 2500 TT meet all the Pt 135 mins and then some. I've been offered a summer job flying a 206. A friend in the airlines says don't be dumb just get on and take it but I'm not so sure as the pay and hours ($100/12/day duty time 3 days/week) are lousy and odd as it may sound I do pretty well as an independent CFII monetarily. Ok I'm an old bastard but that never goes on the resume . . . .
I don't know what you consider to be old, but I was in my late thirties-early forties when I was in the job market. I met all the commuter (regional) mins with most of the time you see at the left. I had my ATP and type rating, college degree, everything you'd think they want, including, finally, 500+ hours of multi. Fourteen years ago, 500 hours of multi was a standard requirement; more was still better - and people whine about the 200 or less these days.

I had a few regional interviews, but, in the overall scheme, few responses. I sent resumes with and without my personal information; it made no difference with either. In the meantime, those at my school who had similar or lesser quals but were fifteen years or more younger were getting interviews at the same places from which I heard nothing.

I do agree that your low multi puts you at a big disadvantage, Further,
Vladimir Lenin said:
I think your resume may be telling a story of your achievements and the [employers] are leery of hiring an older dude who may be set in his ways by now . . .
(emphasis added)

Take note that it was Vladimir, not me, who said it first, this time. What Vlad wrote sums up what I believe happened in my case. Moreover, employers think that older applicants will want more money to start, no matter what they say. I was always completely willing to start at the bottom of scale, just like everyone else. They refuse to be convinced otherwise, or even listen. Their minds are closed and their ears and eyes are shut. They also fear that an older worker will stay at their airline, top out at scale, and eventually vest in their 401-K, both of which will cost them money.

Leaving your age off your resume won't help. An employer can calculate from your employment history your age within a few years, even if you leave off dates of employment - and discriminate accordingly. In addition, if you were not required to furnish copies of your airman certficates with your application or resume, the employer will ask to see them at your interview. No matter which way you turn, you cannot win with an employer that practices age discrimination. And, it's impossible to prove; all the employer has to say is he/she had better-qualified applicants. It is institutionalized discrimination.

If it were me, I'd take the 206 job if you are at all serious of continuing your career. It'll be something other than instructing. Although flight instructing kept me employed as a pilot fourteen years ago, when better-qualified pilots from the defunct airlines were on the market, I believe that too much instructing time also may have hurt me.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
 
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Flechas said:

Anyone know how the QOL is there? Pay?

Just curious. I bugged the he!! out of them about 5 years ago when I was a disgruntled instructor. Guess I was a little too good at the "bugging" part because I never heard anything.
 
I would take the 206 job.

Flew them things in the past, and one thing led to another and the ball started rolling and rolling.....What a ride.
 
shamrock said:
Anyone know how the QOL is there? Pay?

Just curious. I bugged the he!! out of them about 5 years ago when I was a disgruntled instructor. Guess I was a little too good at the "bugging" part because I never heard anything.

I interviewed with them like a year ago, and I think it's a great place to work. The planes are good, maintenance is good, and the peole are awesome!
I think the pay is about $83 or $88 a day, can't remember. A friend of mine works there and loves it. I didn't take the job because had the chance to come to XJT while waiting for their call, but would have loved to work there.
 
You seriously need multi. Get it however you can. Get an MEI, fly freight, whatever. Either corporate or airlines, you've gotta get some multi time, and if you can, multi-turbine time.
 
Bobbysamd: Agree with you about the griping over present-day 100, 200 hour multi requirements. Guys now celebrate 1200 total time. Back in our (?) day (I think I go back farther, but I'm not saying I'm older; was younger when I was first in professional aviation, before age 20), 500 multi was minimum and many competitive applicants had more. And typically anywhere from 2000 to 5000 total. I'm not really in a position to advise the original poster, but my comment would be that 30 hours multi with 2500 total isn't going to do much if multi-flying is the goal. And no MEI. Best approach might be to get on with an outfit which offers real opportunity to fly multi, even if starting position is in a single. Or get the MEI and instruct at a place which does a lot of multi instructing. (I'm an MEI, but got a DHC-6 Twin Otter job right after my MEI, and also delivered a couple of new twins for my flight school employer at the time, did a little multi 135 in light twins (flight school had 135 cert.), etc., so never really used my own MEI much. But I do like having it. As with my Citation type. Which was a blast to get a year and a half ago and, guess what, all of the guys in my Citation class were in their 40's. I was the junior pilot with 3,000 hours.)
So, multi time or progression to multi aircraft. As for the age thing, I'm advanced in that dept. but I was offered interviews with 2 regional 121 operators in late 2004. I think the original poster is a Commercial, but not an ATP. So, that is a factor, too. Seems that certificates, ratings, quality of experience, education, and attitude can at least partially offset age factor, at least to a certain age. Best wishes.
 
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Mins "back in the 'day'"

lawfly said:
Guys now celebrate 1200 total time . . . .
I don't understand that. I had close to that and about 50 multi when Riddle hired me in 1988. Published mins to the contrary, I was nowhere near competitive for the regionals - apparently not even for those who advertised very minimal multi.
Back in our (?) day (I think I go back farther, but I'm not saying I'm older; was younger when I was first in professional aviation, before age 20), 500 multi was minimum and many competitive applicants had more. And typically anywhere from 2000 to 5000 total . . . .
Sixteen to eighteen years ago is the time I know best. Back then, standard published requirements were 1500-500, with an ATP being desirable. Competitive quals were at least 500 of multi and 2500 total; my first interview had me at about 2800 total and 630 of multi.

Perhaps 1989 was the height of that boom, because two female Riddle instructors I worked with, and who had started there with zip, left in less than year for Express I in Minneapolis with about 1200 total and 280 of multi. No professional experience other than flight instructing, by the way.
 
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Come on down to NC and fly at Ram Air Freight. You will be in the twin by the second week, guaranteed. Low pay, but good maintenance and GPS direct everywhere. You'll have 500 hours of multi in 6 months, then its on to where ever. Feel free to PM me for more info or check out www.ramairfreight.com
 
You need IFR 135 mins. 1200 Total, 500 XC (point to point), 150 Night, 75 IFR (actual or simulated)

Most companies will hire you with the bare minimums. (Those). Plus, most of them know that you're not going to be there for a career, and they're more than willing to help you in your search to move on to bigger and better things.
 
I got the job right at the 1200 mark. The most senior guys have only been here for 6 months. Everyone jumps ship as quickly as possible, mostly to the regionals, some have gone corporate.
 

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