What Will Tomorrow Bring??

[daysleeper2621]

Hello everyone,
I've looked through this message board for almost 5 months now and have come to realize that many of the members here give invaluable advice to others while some seem to just love criticizing others. I'm looking for both. This coming spring I plan on spending a semester interning hopefully at one of the top airlines. But I have a few questions for you guys before I send out any resumes. First of all, I know just how easily the greatest of airlines can become yesterday's news with the blink of an eye, i.e. Pan Am, Braniff, and Eastern just to name a few. And now I'm looking in the news at Delta speaking of financial woes and United already being in bankcruptcy for months now and recently being denied a $1.4 billion loan from the government. So without criticizing the pilots or management of either company, what is the likely hood of either of these airlines being erased from the industry 5, 10, or even 15 years down the road? I know we can't look into the future but what are ya'lls educated guesses?

Second, I know the airlines are definitely not going to just start hiring pilots right out of college with only 500 hours at the most by the time I graduate so I was wondering if it would be best to intern at possibly a fractional or corporate company in hopes that I'll have a better chance of being hired by them soon after college since I'll already have a foot in the door even though I'll have relatively low time.

Third, if I do take a corporate job sometime in the future, if I ever tried to go to the airlines would I have to go to the regionals first or possibly straight to the majors?

Fourth, I go to Auburn University and am in the professional flight program here and was wondering if majoring in the field of aviation will provide me with an extra stepping stone to getting a job.

Thanks guys for the help and please don't let these questions end up in a verbal fight between different pilot groups. This upcoming decision of mine will most definitely affect how my career in aviation goes and everyone's advice will be great to read. Thanks again.

 

[English]

Second, I know the airlines are definitely not going to just start hiring pilots right out of college with only 500 hours at the most by the time I graduate so I was wondering if it would be best to intern at possibly a fractional or corporate company in hopes that I'll have a better chance of being hired by them soon after college since I'll already have a foot in the door even though I'll have relatively low time.

Third, if I do take a corporate job sometime in the future, if I ever tried to go to the airlines would I have to go to the regionals first or possibly straight to the majors?

Well, actually, regional airlines might hire you right after college with 500 hours, especially if you are attending a school with a "bridge" program. I know Eagle has been interviewing and hiring pilots with 500 hours if they have a letter from the Dean of the school affiliated with the program. As far as an internship at a fractional, I'm not familiar with any of those and I'm not even sure if they exist. Most corporate companies don't have intern programs. Those that do call it an internship, throw you into the right seat without any training, and don't pay you. There may be some legitimate internships at corporate flight departments but I'm not familiar with any. Myabe if someone else here is, they can chime in. Just consider your stint at a regional airline as an internship.

In terms of you going to the majors in the future, who do you mean? Do you mean American, Delta and United? If so, none of us can answer that question becuase these companies are not currently hiring. When and if they resume hiring, it is impossible to predict what their requirements will be. I can tell you that in the past, corporate pilots have gone directly to these airlines without any airline experience. However, it seems that a majority of candidates hired were from the military or regional airline captains. If you are referring to carriers such as AirTran, Southwest, jetBlue, etc., they each have their individual pilot qualification requirements, but, generally, AirTran is the only airline with a stated policy of requiring airline experience to qualify for employment.

 

[mach zero]

Hello everyone,
I've looked through this message board for almost 5 months now and have come to realize that many of the members here give invaluable advice to others while some seem to just love criticizing others. I'm looking for both. This coming spring I plan on spending a semester interning hopefully at one of the top airlines. But I have a few questions for you guys before I send out any resumes. First of all, I know just how easily the greatest of airlines can become yesterday's news with the blink of an eye, i.e. Pan Am, Braniff, and Eastern just to name a few. And now I'm looking in the news at Delta speaking of financial woes and United already being in bankcruptcy for months now and recently being denied a $1.4 billion loan from the government. So without criticizing the pilots or management of either company, what is the likely hood of either of these airlines being erased from the industry 5, 10, or even 15 years down the road? I know we can't look into the future but what are ya'lls educated guesses?

Second, I know the airlines are definitely not going to just start hiring pilots right out of college with only 500 hours at the most by the time I graduate so I was wondering if it would be best to intern at possibly a fractional or corporate company in hopes that I'll have a better chance of being hired by them soon after college since I'll already have a foot in the door even though I'll have relatively low time.

Third, if I do take a corporate job sometime in the future, if I ever tried to go to the airlines would I have to go to the regionals first or possibly straight to the majors?

Fourth, I go to Auburn University and am in the professional flight program here and was wondering if majoring in the field of aviation will provide me with an extra stepping stone to getting a job.

Thanks guys for the help and please don't let these questions end up in a verbal fight between different pilot groups. This upcoming decision of mine will most definitely affect how my career in aviation goes and everyone's advice will be great to read. Thanks again.

Some meaningless thoughts from a licensed cynic:
1. The degree from AU's flight program won't matter one iota when looking for a job. I know because I have an AU Aviation Mgmnt degree and nobody really cared when I looked for a job. Don't get me wrong, a four year degree is a definite plus but you could have majored in tidleywinks at Central Nowhere State Univ. and it would have meant the same to the airlines. What counts is your flight experience and what helps is the friends you make at AU because they might get on at some company you want to work for and could write you a recommendation. Always keep in touch with your alumni friends, it has helped me more than once.

2. Airlines hire corporate pilots but it's harder to go from an airline job to a corporate job. Reasons vary from a slight prejudice that corporate pilots have against airline pilots to the fact that most corporate jobs require a type with hours in the kind of jet they have. Bottom line I would make darn sure any corporate job you consider will afford the opportunity to upgrade to Capt. No major airline cares about F/O time in any type of corporate or regional jet. PIC turbine is what the majors want, be it from commuter, corporate, or whatever. Get that TPIC as soon as possible. Don't go anywhere where upgrade takes a long time or may not happen. Watch out for this at corporate jobs especially because if you get on with low hours, you may see them continually hire experienced typed Captains off the street that meet their insurance requirements and you could get left right seat slinging gear long term. If the commuter route is the way you choose, go somplace you can make CA in one to two years. Keep in mind it may take some time flying multi-engine pistons running freight or checks or instructing to get on with a commuter in today's environment. Unfortunately, AU doesn't emphasize time building while enrolled there. 500 hours TT does not give you many options when you graduate. Realize you might be banging around a pattern in a Cessna with students awhile after you leave the plains. All this assumes a major airline is where you eventually want to be. Have patience as well. It took me ten years after I graduated to get to a Boeing.

3. I heard that Col. Johnson is retiring is this true?

Mach 0

 

[Newjetjockey]

My prediction is that the majors will come back strong some day. However, I also think that during the next economic downturn the Low Cost Carriers will continue to chip away at the marketshare. Its just a matter of time before the LCCs start stealing away international routes. I did the internship at Delta and learned a ton about the industry. I have a great foot in the door that I will probably never use because I'm at Airtran and plan to roll the dice here and stay. Like daysleeper said. Go where you can upgrade the fastest. Get your resume built as quickly as possible. Every day you waste not building time will cost you seniority at your future career airline. I recommend the regionals because its the fastest track. 121 jet PIC is the most valuable time you can get.


Good luck with your decision. War Eagle!

 

[daysleeper2621]

War Eagle to you alumni as well. Colonel Johnson is retiring but taking his time doing it. I haven't heard of a definite date at which he plans to step aside, but I'm sure he'll never leave Auburn Aviation for good. Thanks so much guys for the advice thus far and I was just wondering but who do you fly for Mach Zero? I know a lot of the guys here intrern with Continental Express (I'm not sure how many have gotten hired in the past) and only a few have been able to intern with ASA or Delta. The rumor I've heard is that Delta prefer's Embry-Riddle students over Auburn's. Any truth to that? I only have 24 hours left until my commercial is completed and could not wish any harder that tomorrow would be my check ride. I know a lot of times you have to do jobs you can't stand but the LAST thing I will ever do is be an instructor. As a student I am bored enough by the constant repitition of my lessons and I can't even imagine how tired I would become of flying as an instructor. No offense to anyone instructor's out there. If it wasn't for ya'll giving back to aviation as a teacher I wouldn't be where I am today. Thanks again guys and congratulations on ya'lls jobs. I can only dream of what it will be like to finally get paid to fly, especially something faster than a 172.

 

[daysleeper2621]

One more quick question. What commuter airlines are the most recommended. And when you say commuter are you talking about companies such as SkyWest or Mesa?

 

[mach zero]

The problem you are going to have is getting from 500TT to the 1500TT and 200ME that is competitive at most commuters right now. If you can intern and sneak in the back door at a commuter with 500TT that is great. Would I bet on doing just that...NO. There are many high time qualified pilots out there right now who you will be competing against and the commuters are getting their pick of the litter. Instructing does blow sometimes but it gets you the hours. Outside of instructing, multi-engine time building jobs are just plain hard to find. I think you even need 1,200TT or something like that to qualify for a part 135 piston multi-engine freight job. I know of one friend of mine who built his time by buying a ME plane.

If you do intern remember you don't own the airline and you are not entitled to a job there. Probably 75% of the interns I have had contact with at the airlines I have worked at have this attitude. A friend of mine even had to kick an intern off his jumpseat at the outstation for her confrontational demeanor. IMHO running copies or doing computer work for the CP's office doesn't make you more qualified for a flying job.

I'm off the soapbox now. Good luck with your checkride. War Eagle.

M 0

 

[daysleeper2621]

I'm looking forward to interning with an airline or any company just to learn everything I can about the industry and to ge some experience with what it's like working in the industry at such a high level. I definitely know an intership doesn't provide easy access to a future job but the more I can learn the better off I am I hope. I just didn't want you to have this impression of me mach zero that I am one of the group of 75% you spoke of. As of right now I'm just hoping I can get an intern. This position alone seems to be becoming very competitive lately. Thanks again though for your thoughts and please keep them coming guys.

 

[climbhappy]

read your post...no sense to retype it....my view is you have to make the committment to the industry. things change and are running in 10 cylcles it looks like. the majors will be around in different form, though. hub and spoke still work and theire is room for direct to as well. from what i've read(i didn't come up with this) their will be a shakeout in the regionals who rely on fee per departure for their revenue. these are the mesa's, mesaba's, pinnacle's, and chatauqua's of the world to name a few. If Independence air succeeds, more will try it. Low fares are here to stay and with low pay, and benefits for regional pilots. It would not be absurd to see a merger of someone like american and southwest. To create a huge airline with both segments of the industry covered.

why not instruct , then fly freight for flight express or someone. guys who flew night IFR can get a job anywhere. if I can , you can.

like mach zero said, act huble, be humble and listen, listen listen to the pros you get around. you'll learn something.

 

[ivauir]

I doubt we'll see SWA and AA (or anyone else) merge, but if my opinion mattered you wouldn't be able to get it for free here. There is not a soul who knows what the future will bring. I am not trying to be glib, but my advice to you is to stop looking for guarantees in this business and in life.

If you REALLY enjoy flying then pursue this career, and any plans you make ought to be the baseline for change. If your plan is to CFI, regional and then a major in 5 years GREAT! But if a really neat opportunity comes along (neat as defined by you - towing banners at the beach, working a panel on the whale over seas ... whatever) pursue it. If you want an easy job, big house, easy girl, big watch .... well who knows when or if those things will come. My point is that not only is life crazy and unpredicable, but this career is even worse ... Do not attempt without a profound love of aviation.

Just my $.02

 

[Dangerkitty]

The rumor I've heard is that Delta prefer's Embry-Riddle students over Auburn's. Any truth to that?

I am a Auburn Alumni however I opted out of the Aviation Management program and did all my training at AUO under Part 61 Rules. I got sick of the beauracratic BS and wanted to do the training under my terms, not theirs.
So I got a degree in Psychology where I could screw around for 5 years, get a degree and not have to study.

I interviewed both at AA and Delta. I was also hired at both. From what I saw, they could care less where you graduated from they just wanted to see a degree. In the case of DAL I would say the Auburn grads maybe have a slight upper hand since Auburn is only 2 hours away from ATL, thus a better chance of networking. Just my humble opinion.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Brian;


You're welcome.
PHXFLYR

 

[B6Busdriver]

Personally if I had to do it all over again I would skip the aviation degree. Get a degree in something that will get you a job; something to fall back on. You can learn to fly at any local airport or join the guard, etc. Good luck in your endeavors. If flying airplane is truly what you want to do then hang in there and don't ever give up.

 

[johnpeace]

You might want to read this thread

 

[PastV1]

daysleeper....


Air National Guard or Air Force Reserve.....
Maxwell is right down the street and fly's C-130's.
Or Danley (sp) flying F-16's.

Training is free... (if you don't count the time you now owe them)
Past.....

 

[PHXFLYR]

Daysleeper.....

Forget the cutesy intern programs, don't waste your time at the commuters or regional airlines or whatever they are calling themselves nowadays. Get smart and look into military flying, Air Force or Navy. Have many friends who have carved out full careers either through active duty or active duty/reserves and still got airline careers once they finished their active duty military commitment. And the nice thing for them is they have earned themselves a nice military pension with medical for use later on, a nice option to have nowadays when you consider the significant cutbacks in benefits occurring at the airlines today. Do yourself a favor. Look into the military. There isn't a day that goes by that I wish I had. Good luck!


PHXFLYR

 

[ivauir]

Get smart and look into military flying, Air Force or Navy. Have many friends who have carved out full careers either through active duty or active duty/reserves and still got airline careers once they finished their active duty military commitment. PHXFLYR

I did the military thing and have NOTHING bad to say about it. But I wouldn't advise someone to do it so they get an airline job. The military asks a lot of its folks (not to be trite but - potentially their lives) and IMHO there is only one reason to join. The equipment can be glamourous (none of the stuff I flew was, but I've heard stories) the pay is much better then at the regionals, but the commitments are many (10 years after pilot training) and you may/will be asked to do things that will not help your airline career. If you want to serve your country "cross over into the blue ..." If you dream of beautiful flight attendants, crash pads, BMWs and airplanes that are NOT NVG compatable I would pursue another route. In my (limited) experience at SWA the guys who went the cilivilian route got hired younger anyway. That means better seniorty and more moeny anyway. SOOooo if you wan the big bucks, suck it up now, eat ramen noodles and get building your time (I agree with the nonaviation degree advice) If you want to kill them that needs killen - we've been waiting for you ....

Best o luck