What do you think?

[Gator1999]

I am interested in starting a new ALPA comittee to try and educate those that do not understand what is going on in the industry and to combat this race for the bottom.

The way I see it, flight instructors, and flight students that wish to bypass the CFI route, at collegiate university's are taking these substandard jobs and unknowingly undermining the hard work from all of us. As far as they are concerned, a job that pays 10 bucks an hour to fly a jet is much better than working as a flight instructor for 8 bucks an hour. They don't know that they are harming the industry, they just want better quality time, a bit more money, jumpseat benefits, etc. etc.

My idea is to start a comittee that will go to the schools and talk with the students and instructors about the state of the industry, and educate them about what we are working for and how what we are able to achieve will benefit them in the long term. I believe that the Orenstien's and other airline management's out there are counting on these innocent and uninformed flight instructors and students to staff their airlines and drive down the true worth of a pilot.

I think that if all you graduates from schools like Embry Riddle, UND, SIU, Purdue, Daniel Webster, FIT, Metro State, WMU, St. Cloud State, Mankato, etc. went back to your alma mater and talked to the flight instructors and students, we might be able to make a difference as a whole.

What do you think?

 

[climbhappy]

i think unless you have uniform minimum hiring standards such as 1500 TT , ATP and prior 135 for one year min. then the flood gates are open with 500 hr wonders, who empty their wallets to the florida pilot factories.

PFT should be banned, the FAA would have to support it .

unless this happens, you're pi$$ing in the wind, and its gusting to 20 knots.

WHY HASN'T ALPA ALREADY SUGGESTED THIS. BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T CARE LESS ABOUT REGIONAL PILOTS.

 

[Gator1999]

why not make it something along the lines of a non-profit organization of itself? That might be a better approach than tieing it to an already developed organization.

FlyChicaga (Windy City right?),
I like that idea a lot...kinda like a Professional Pilot Mentoring and Communication Society. Pilots across the country that can spend a day to talk to instructors and flight students about the state of the industry and why PFT should be avoided at all costs. Thanks for the input.

i think unless you have uniform minimum hiring standards such as 1500 TT , ATP and prior 135 for one year min. then the flood gates are open with 500 hr wonders, who empty their wallets to the florida pilot factories.

climbhappy,
I think you're right. I think that PFT is a cancer and that as long as people are willing to "pay to play", our jobs and way of life will be at risk. I also believe that these people that make the concious decision to PFT are doing so because they don't know any better and don't have first hand knowledge. What we need to do is educate. Some will still pay, but some are also smart enough to know that they might be doing more harm than good and will stop and think before they write that check if they have the information before hand. Just my opinion. Thanks for the response.

Anyone else?

 

[jdru25]

As of lately I have seen a lot of advertisements for PFT that talked specifically about career changers. Don't leave out the career changers in this case........everyone must be informed!!

 

[SpocksBeard]

The career changers are a huge part of all this! I went to one of these colleges mentioned before and the majority of students I knew were not the sort to buy a job (for the most part). The gulfstream guys I've met were all career changers. This is still a good idea though.

 

[Flyairjason]

Gator1999,

Have you lost your marbles? If you tell some punka$$ CFI (I was one too!) that he or she can be a REAL LIVE airline pilot if they just cough up 18 to 20 grand, they're gonna do it! They aren't going to think, "I oughtta go and pay my dues and spare my bros" 'cause they're preconditioned to think how can I knock my bros pud in the dirt and steal his freak'n job! I'm sorry fellas, I'm being realistic. They don't think it'll matter if they screw the true value of a pilot by taking a jet job for ten bucks an hour, because they feel that they're only going to get in and get out. With this in mind it'll be the next guys burden to do the ethical thing and demand better working conditions and reasonable pay.
I wish I could have a rosier outlook on this matter, but every time a new class starts and the operator pressures the junior pilot to sign a contract, pay for their own uniforms, work for freak'n poverty wages, wash the airplane, or whatever... The point is it undermines our profession and shafts the rest of us. I said it before and I'll say it again, the reason we pay the price now is because this nonsense has been going on since long before we arrived on the scene. It isn't going to get better either- not as long as these PFT punks agree to pay their employer for their job. To think, these guys actually think that management is doing them a favor! It's laughable... Airline managements of the world laugh right back at our sorry a$$es, and what we'll do just so that we can say we're airline pilots.
One more thing, (and I know I'm gonna hear about this...) You PFT guys need to get a clue. You're screwing up the program for the rest of us. Those of us with families and somewhat of a lifestyle can't sustain the damage that you inflict on our profession. My advice... Go out, get some freak'n experience, learn how to read a plate and act like a professional so that the Captains can stop babysitting your sorry diaper clad a$$es and the rest of us can get off of the government cheese program. Wouldn't you appreciate an experienced flightcrew flying your family around?
Jason

 

[MYFpilot]

Yeah, just when I thought It couldn't get any worse I was looking at latest copy of Airline Pilot Careers magazine the other day, and you know it's bad in the industry when Kit Darby puts the Gulfstream Academy on the front cover. The best part of the article was when they were talking about 200 hour pilots flying the Beech 1900, and they said how this was a great airplane for the program because it can be flown single pilot and the captain can reach everything from the left seat. Nothing like giving dual with 19 passengers in back, eh! I can just hear the captain on final, "alright ease her in, easy, easy, watch your airspeed, airspeed, airspeed!! MY AIRPLANE!!!!!

PFT at the Gulfstream Academy... $60,000

Bachelors Degree from Internet college... $ 50,000

Having a worthless resume and spending you entire career at a crappy regional paying back sallie mae... PRICELESS!

There are somethings that money can't buy (like pride, integrity, hard work, experience, leadership) for everything else there's PFT and on-line degrees

 

[Gator1999]

Flyairjason,
I also think that you're right. I want people to be passionate about this issue because it's these "punka$$ CFI's" that are f#cking it up for us, the people that worked our a$$es off for a job. Like I said before, there will always be people who pay to play, and no, there isn' t a f#ckin thing that you or I can do about it. All I am suggesting is for passionate pilots like you and me need to inform those people that they are the ones that are harming the industry and are driving down yours and my worth as a pilot. Who knows, maybe there are people with scruples and a good heart and will stop and think before they write a check for upteen thousand dollars. Can it hurt to try at least? Go talk to them.

Have I lost my marbles? Yeah, I started losing them a long time ago, and continue to lose them on a daily basis every day that I go back to work with bitter, sour people like yourself. Blame me for having a optimistic attitude and looking for the good in people, am I being naiive? Maybe, but it's better than having a f#cking coronary so early in my career and turning into that bitter captain that I have come to hate. Go spew your hate somewhere else or try and turn it into something positive. Have a nice life.

Thanks to all who gave good advice (which is what I was asking for) to my post.

 

[belchfire]

and you might even point out that
there are ten thousand regional pilots
sticking each other in the ribs fighting
for a few jobs at SWA and AirTran, that
the pilot hiring boom has come and
gone and they would be better of being
MDs or engineers!!!Then they could afford
to fly for fun!

I can't believe that anyone swallows the
load of jiz that these flightschool/PFT places
are putting out. They (students) should
spend a few hours on board here before
pucking up the big bucks!

Geeze!!!

 

[greyhound]

More specific please.....

Could you guys inform us low-timers which programs or flight schools you're talking about. I know about Gulfstream, but which other ones?
Start informing people now on this board.

 

[wndshr]

Wait, wait, wait-backup a minute.

Gator1999,
I wont go off on a tangent since I can see that's not what was intended in this thread. I will say, however, that reality is what it is, my friend... I'm not bitter, and I'm not spewing hate. Actually, I have a great high paying job that makes me very happy... I just call 'em like I see 'em, plain and simple. I applaud your drive and focus to extract the positives in this situation, I just don't think it's realistic... That's it. I think you took my viewpoint the wrong way.
I admire your crusade, I really do. I mean that with all sincerity... Your work is very cut out for you though. Let me and all of us know what we can do to help.

Jason

 

[Flyairjason]

ooops...

Sorry guys,
I'm using a public computer and didn't realize that "wndshr" was still logged in when I posted my last post. Apologies to wndshr (I don't know him or her) though I did sign my post with my name as I always do...
Regards,
Jason

 

[Gator1999]

Flyairjason,
Thanks for your response and I apologize for calling you bitter. We are a lot alike and I think that even though it might be a losing battle, I'm in this for the long fight. I think that it's worth a little blood, sweat, and tears.

I applaud your efforts to set up a contribution fund for Steven Dean and his family. You didn't have to do it, but you did, and I think that speaks volumes of the kind of people that are out there flying. There are good people that have scruples and ethics and I just think that once they are informed, they can make informed decisions. That's all. But it's up to us to inform them and let them know what they are doing to the industry, and how they can help make it better for all of us as a whole.