Westwind And Phoenix East Aviation

[PEEPER]

HELLO.

IF ANYONE OUT THERE HAS ANY THOUGHTS ON WESTWIND SCHOOL OF AERONAUTICS OR PHOENIX EAST AVIATION, I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR THEM.

DO THEY OFFER GOOD QUALITY GROUND SCHOOL?
DO THEY HAVE A GOOD OVERALL REPUTATION?

I'VE FOUND SPARSE PIECES OF INFORMATION ON THESE SCHOOLS WHILE DOING A SUBJECT SEARCH ON THIS WEBSITE.

THANK YOU.

 

[labbats]

I think your caps lock is stuck

 

[flyallday]

Go to jetcareers.com

 

[Westwindflyer]

I just recently finished with westwind and was very happy with there program. They have very good groundschools that are all required to be taught by our check pilots. You can gain so much knowledge here from what seems to be an endless amount of resources.

 

[Tinstaafl]

I went to Westwind Aviation Academy for a very short period ~7 years ago to convert my foreign ATPL to the US ATP. Whilst I was generally happy with the instruction the overall impression I got was that of a self feeding sausage factory (you know - churning out CPL/CFIs to train another round of CPL/CFIs) more interested in your money.

There was some tie-up with another or different Westwind at Deer Valley who provided the aircraft. The 2nd Westwind seemed to be a different organisation.

That was a long time ago (in aviation, anyway). Chances are it's all changed since then.

 

[Westwindflyer]

That was the old westwind things are very different now. They have an all new facility and own their own aircraft, well they actually lease them from private parties to keep the operating cost down for them.

 

[jergar999]

Before you go to Westwind, check out ATP at IWA. For much cheaper you get about 100 multi hours. Unfortunately, you won't get to wear a 172 captains uniform, but I think it's still worth it.

 

[Westwindflyer]

Hey now I like my capt uniform. It makes me feel special.

 

[Tinstaafl]

Just checked their website. I still get the overwhelming impression of a sausage mill. I've never like companies that won't post their rates. If they have then **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ed if I could find them.

 

[Westwindflyer]

It used to be posted on the website but now it just says to contact them for the info. you just have to talk to the front desk they wont try to sell you on it they will just give you a quote. Rates in this industry mean nothing anyway because each person takes different amounts of training.

 

[Tinstaafl]

I strongly disagree with you that prices mean nothing. One of the first things *any* potential customer for any service or product wants to know is price.

Sure, a firm quote isn't really do-able, but their own website happily quotes minimum, average & expected hours to complete some certificates & ratings. That's no less an estimate than if they'd quoted prices per course.

When I'm shopping for a service if I don't get the information I want then I go elsewhere. From a potential customer's point of view it looks 'dodgy' when when companies dance around such an important factor in the decision process. Not showing their rates - even just their hourly rates - for all to see falls in that category.

Considering that Westwind targets the overseas market, has a glossy website (but lacks useful detail eg prices, course content breakdown etc) then they've done themselves a disservice. Why would a potential customer shopping via the web incur often pricey international call charges just to get basic information when there are plenty of other schools that *do* give the information?

 

[PEEPER]

Thanks for the responses.

I'm somewhat limited with the choices I can make for training location. My wife and I need to find a school in an area where she can attend an appropriate graduate school. For flight training, I'm interested in quality-of course, price, well maintained aircraft, and a location good for us both.

I would consider ATP, however, I would be thrown into a CFI pool, and shipped off to whichever nationwide location needs a CFI. If possible, I want to train and instruct in the same place, for her sake.

I also considered DCA, but the price along with the constant sales pitch and fine print on their website and info packet turn me off.

 

[macfly]

i went to PEA, the most fun i had drinking and flying.

I would however, do 121 at your local FBO if you can..

although, I got some great "in the action" dealing with the ATC around the area.

 

[macfly]

i went to PEA, some good flying, however the girls at DAB are, wait I should say, what girls?.

I would however, do part 61 at your local FBO if you can..

although, I got some great "in the action" dealing with the ATC around the area.

 

[TMRoss]

I went to PEA - Do not go there. I can not stress this enough. Do not go there. It seemed legit but let me give you some information here. The head guy there, was a 747 captain for Saudi. He had problems at home so came here and made a deal with all his buddies at Saudi Air. They send him their sons and he grants them student visas to enter the states. Yes they were shut down after 9-11. I was one of like two white boys and the other hundred running around were towelheads. Nice guys but if I ever find out who stole my book there Ill whoop your...Let me mention the dudes daughter is cute and hangs out with the towelheads after she works the desk and once they are done coking up everyone gets a trip on saudi air if you know what i mean. I have the best training from there because I have had so many inflight failures I know all the procedures. Maintenance was pretty bad. Planes got fixed but things would fail. Radios, transponders, electrical failure after rotation at night. That was fun. They dont even have the planes they advertise for. They have a king air and 727 simulator that is soo very old school. They only want money all upfront. This way after thirty days or so it is non refundable. I knew a lot of dudes that had to fly off ten thousand dollars when they were to leave or go somewhere else to live or student visas were up or whatever. Never in my life have I seen so many f ups in my life. Not just the employees but the students. I was in and out in six months. Got instrument commercial and multi. Guys still there a year after I left that didnt have private yet. Also, they drive to Gainesville on weekends do all sorts of drugs and srive back saturday morning with no sleep, and then fly with instructors. Please do not go there. If you do.....then do this....do not pay up front. Also, get a parent involved. Sounds silly but if you go in by yourself they will take full advantage of you. Bob and Al are the guys that are really bad. And the secretary in the front likes all the Greek dudes that were instructors. Lets just say it was often she was seeing them...all of them...and they always seemed to have my name crossed out with theirs written in pen over mine when I checked the schedule the night before and I was there to preflight at six in the morning. No pens allowed on it and also she was the one who wrote it. I can go on and on. You want a fabulous flight school go to American Flyers or ATP or Flight Safety or Riddle. Don;t go to PEA. Bad things man bad things!

 

[737pilot]

Dear Friends,

Back in 1997 I started flight training in Phonix East Aviation.I was an international student from Europe and in the e-mails and advertisements they seemed like a serious and OK flight school.After spending 2 months in that place I understood that the place is more like a "circus".If you ever pay in advance you'll all get buttf..d.Since its impossible to find an airplane to fly since they are all down for maint.sometimes you find that you're named crossed from schedule,it takes weeks to find an check instructor to make a stage chack for part 141 and you stuck for weeks without flying during stage check times and all your money is non refunable if you pay in advance.

I was clever and lucky to pay only few money in advance to start the course as soon as my down payment finished I moved to Embry Riddle.I strongly recomend ERAU for serious flight training.Now I am a 737-800 FO for an European charter ailine.

The owner Mr Nino was a nice guy actually but had no idea what those Saudi chief pilot and his gang are up to.I'd say don't even consider that crappy place as a flight school.Avoid it at all costs.



TMRoss when were you flying at PEA?

 

[TMRoss]

Round 2k

I think I was there around 2k. Would have to check my log book. Been to different places ya know but I would have to think it was around that time. Got out of there by Feb 2001. Is that when you were there? Congrats on your position now. Wish I could be up there!

 

[737pilot]

TMRoss,
I was there around 1997-98.I saw the adverts on internet like the kingair and the 727 simulator.During my training(almost 2 months) I have never seen the kingair and 727 sim was a dump.

They still owe me 5 sorties of multi engine flight but I didn't even get that.I know people spent all their money on PPL which would be enough to go through CPL ME.

We in Europe are luckier in some ways and unlucky some ways also compared to you guys.You can be hired and trained as as FO with relatively low flt hours but its harder to find jobs here too.I guess I was lucky to have contacts around the airlines because my father and grandfather(rip) are pilots with thousands of flt hours under their belts.

I hope you'll make your way up front as quick as possible.Good Luck.
737pilot

 

[bobbysamd]

FlightSafety

I second the suggestion about FlightSafety Academy in Vero. I was a flight instructor at FSI from 1991-92. I since have had contact with officials who were there when I was there, and have heard from recent students. FSI is expensive, but a great program overall. The aircraft are impeccably maintained and plentiful, so maintenance and aircraft availability won't be worries. The school has been receiving new Seminoles. The flight training is excellent, especially because unusual attitudes and spins are part of the course. Perhaps the only shortcoming is ground school. I felt that students did not receive enough information and still feel that way, but maybe that was because I was hired at FSI after being an ERAU flight instructor. Don't get me wrong; FSI's ground school is certainly adequate.

Run a board search on FSI for other comments.

Finally, I recall that Phoenix East was sort of the anti-Riddle. A number of ERAU students who did not care for it would fly there. We had a similar situation in Prescott, where many disgruntled Riddlers continued with college at ERAU but flew at the other schools on the field.

Hope that helps. Good luck with your choice.