Was it me or him?

[Care269]

I join a local flying club that has some fast Bonanzas. I fly 402's for a regional and wanted a fun plane to rent and take the family up in. The folks in the club seem great and I schedule a check-out in the Bonanza w/1 of the instructors. We do a walk arouns and he wont answer any questions about systems except to tell me the plane is 300 HP and the answers to all my other ?'s (gear, flaps, fuel, etc..) are in the book and on the quizz. We get in and he tells me we dont have a printed check list but he knows it by heart. I tell him we have one in the Operators Handbook and can use that. He says no. He talks me through basic start procedures, no flows, no checks, just start, and has me taxi to the active. We get to the active and he asks me to run it up to 1700 and check both Mags, I do. He has me reduce power and starts telling me what speed to rotate at. I ask if we're going to do a Before Tale Off Check list and he says we just did. I ask, what about setting trim, checking flaps, checking flight controls, cycling the prop, etc.. He gets pissed and says "we dont have to do the flight if you don't want to" I call Ground w/out responding to him and ask to taxi back. The entire way back he tells me he has more hours then me, he wrote the checklist that the club uses, etc.. I ask him if the check list he wrote includes the things I asked to do. He says yes. I tell him it was him that gave me the choice;do the flight w/out checks or dont do the flight. We don't speak anymore. It's been a while since I flew 91 but was I out of line expecting a real check list and an instructor who cares about safety. Should I discuss this with him or other members of the club? Advise? Thanks!!!!

 

[paulsalem]

It sounds like he's being a dick about it. If I'm flying with someone and they want to do something extra that I normally don't do (check the tanks with a fuel stick if the fuel gages read above half, in a skyhawk I fly DAILY) it doesn't bother me. Or if I'm going flying with someone and I've preflighted and they re-check the oil, that's fine with me.

I fly a bonanza part-time, I don't use a paper checklist when I fly. But I go though in a flow and check the major stuff before I go (skipping the standby generator, and vacuum pump etc). But flight controls, engine & flight instrument, props, mags etc.

My opinion, he shouldn't have been such an ass about it, you're paying for it who cares. Could be b/c you (like me) are a younger guy (guess here) and a professional pilot, he is thinking that you thing you're hot shiat with all your "flows, and checks".

Bottom line is if you don’t feel comfortable (sounds like you didn’t) then don’t go. Sounds to me like you did the right thing.

 

[JessMan]

Sounds like he (they?) wanted your money more than to increase your competency, or he wasn't competent in his own abilities, either way it seems like a bad deal.

 

[flyer172r]

I used to fly a bonanza pretty regularly and everything you wanted to check before takeoff is stuff I checked before every flight. And I'm guessing that he didn't answer your system questions because he didn't know the answers. I'd say it's definitely him, you did the right thing.

 

[CA1900]

It was him, not you. The checklist isn't there to tell you what to do -- it's there to make sure you don't forget anything. Forgetfulness can happen to any of us, and forgetting something important just before takeoff can be deadly

Remember the 1987 crash of a Northwest DC-9, where the crew forgot to extend the flaps, and killed 156 people?
The NTSB report included this text: "NEITHER PLT RECITED THE ITEMS OF THE TAXI CKLIST."

I have a problem with a flying club that wouldn't encourage the use of checklists. I'd run far and fast from one that actively discouraged it, as this one seemed to.

I'd have gone back to the ramp, too. Good call.

 

[SpoilerFault]

HE was definately out of line. This guy sounds reckless and I would bring it up to the other members of your club. flyer172 was probably right, he didn't want to answer your systems questions because he didn't know and is too lazy to educate himself. I'm not a pilot but as a mech I've seen this type of guy out there occasionally and sadly enough he'll probably end up as a statistic.

 

[FL420]

The only flying club I ever belonged to was a glider club. It had a strong organization with elected officers and volunteer committee chairman including a Safety Officer. The club had a very detailed operations manual to which everyone was required to adhere.

I suggest you research the printed material and, once the ducks are lined up, get in touch with someone in authority. This guy sounds like a cancer in the organization and an accident waiting to happen. An aircraft accident with its resulting legal ramifications will usually spell the end of a club.

 

[CalifDan]

The Right Thing

You definitely did the right thing, and I would contact the appropriate members of the club to let them know. There are potential liability issues here that might develop from this that the club board or officers might want to be aware of. You might also want to think about finding a different place to rent aircraft. If that is the typical pre-flight attitude, think how much more carefully your own preflight activities will have to be to make sure you don't inherit some problem overlooked on the last 20 flights.

One of the advantages of aircraft used by multiple people on any given day are the number of eyes looking at the thing. Maybe thats the only advantage in fact. Does not sound like they are even getting that.

 

[b350capt]

that guy has an NTSB report in his future......run

 

[AC560]

The instructor sounds like a moron for the purposes of a check ride I probably would have tolerated him, assuming it was an aircraft that I felt largely comfortable in flying. But in terms of the flying club as a whole his actions would make me question how the other people were flying this plane (i.e. doing things which could damage the aircraft and thereby jeopardize my or my family’s safety) and what type of maintenance practices they had in place for it.