VOR Reciprocals

[iflyabeech]

I just started teaching a guy who is working on his instrument rating. He is having trouble selecting a given radial into the CDI. ExampleI tell him to intercept the 012 radial outbound, and he tunes in the 060, the 120, the 030. . .. ) I have given him lots of GS on this and he just doesn't seem to get it. It doesn't really matter if we are flying to or from, he can't seem to get the radial right. The syllabus calls for Ndb traiining now as well, but it is quite hard to do considering the problems with the VOR.

Does anyone have any advice on how to help him get this stuff in his head? He hasn't put much effort into studying. I have taught plenty of successful instrument students in the past, I just haven't been able to help this guy yet!

Thanks

 

[nosehair]

Try this:
http://www.visi.com/~mim/nav/

 

[iflyabeech]

thanks. . .that is what I was looking for,. . .. now. . . if I can get him to use it!

 

[j41driver]

He hasn't put much effort into studying.

There's the problem.

 

[iflyabeech]

There's the problem.

you don't say..that wasa very thoughtful and helpful response.

 

[frog_flyer]

+2 -2

 

[Alamanach]

I found this page:

http://www.campbells.org/Airplanes/VOR/vor.html

one day, and I had to read it a few times before I got what he was talking about, but I really liked it once I got it. Maybe you guys are already familiar with this VOR technique, or maybe not, but I wanted to share it anyway. Intercepting a radial is the easiest thing in the world.

 

[iflyabeech]

I found this page:

http://www.campbells.org/Airplanes/VOR/vor.html

one day, and I had to read it a few times before I got what he was talking about, but I really liked it once I got it. Maybe you guys are already familiar with this VOR technique, or maybe not, but I wanted to share it anyway. Intercepting a radial is the easiest thing in the world.

Thanks, thats good stuff. . .those simulators on the link on that page are pretty cool as well.

 

[AOA]

Something that I still use today was briefly mentioned above...

To calculate the recip for hdg 000-180 simply add 200 and subtract 20
Example 140+(200)=340-20 320 so there it is
For HDG 181-359 the opposite subtract 200 and add 20..

Hope it helps, tell him/her to get their act together. If they plan on making it a career tell them they're not up to the task. If they want to get an IFR added well they'll probably end up in the trees.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

The only way to do reciprocals is by learning them just like you learned the multiplication tables. But with reciprocals there are only 18 combos to learn and you probably already know the easy ones like 18-38, 9-27, 2-20 and 13-31. That now leaves just 14 to learn.

My advice is to forget the adding and subtracting methods.

Comments and/or questions are welcome.

 

[MFRskyknight]

The only way to do reciprocals is by learning them just like you learned the multiplication tables. But with reciprocals there are only 18 combos to learn and you probably already know the easy ones like 18-38, 9-27, 2-20 and 13-31. That now leaves just 14 to learn.

My advice is to forget the adding and subtracting methods.

Comments and/or questions are welcome.

18-38?? Hmmm, I don't think we have one of those fancy new VORs in our area yet....

MFR

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

18-38?? Hmmm.
MFR

Used Rwy 38 just the other day.:laugh:

 

[Mr Wu]

Add 200, take 20

 

[phantomdriver]

rwy 38???

18-38?? Hmmm, I don't think we have one of those fancy new VORs in our area yet....

MFR

rwy 38??? I never heard of a rwy 38 before

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

rwy 38??? I never heard of a rwy 38 before

It's coming in the future! We need more runways because of congestion and airport closures.

 

[carlos]

The digits of reciprocals add up to the same number. Examples:
190 - 010, 1+9=10
210 - 030, 2+1=3
330 - 150, 3+3=1+5
360 - 180, 3+6 = 1+8

Several good techniques have been suggested. Try different ones until you find the one that clicks with him.

 

[Say Again Over]

He first needs to completely understand that a radials are FROM the VOR only, telling him to intercept the radial to the station is confusing, how about just telling him to intercept the 123 radial, hopefully he will then have enough understanding to ask you whether to proceed inbound or outbound.

 

[MFRskyknight]

rwy 38??? I never heard of a rwy 38 before

Hey, this is off topic, but in that movie Catch Me If You Can I seem to remember at one point Leo DiCaprio's character looking out the window of the airplane at "runway 44" in LGA. Did this take place before numbers were assigned as magnetic headings, or did Spielberg really crap up here?



MFR

 

[j41driver]

you don't say..that wasa very thoughtful and helpful response.

Perhaps not the most helpful, but true. If he were to study I'm sure he'd have more of a handle on it. Do you disagree? Has he given you any indication as to why he doesn't study? IMO, if a student doesn't put forth any effort to learn this stuff then he's just wasting his time and the instructor's time. Hopefully he's not in it for a career.

 

[antbar]

My experience is that adding anything to anything in the cockpit while under the hood is nearly impossible for a task-loaded student, even if they have a Ph.D. in Mathematics.

I just have them look at the HI/OBS for the heading in question, and then look at the heading opposite that heading... no math required.

There are several good training aids out there (I've used http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?DID=19&Product_ID=6318&CATID=172 successfully). I just iterate again and again with the student on the ground ("you're heading 310, I tell you to intercept the 015 outbound," while manipulating the needles appropriately), and after hitting their heads against it for a half an hour, you're ready to go try it out in the air or (better) on the sim.