"VFR Tower"

[Hold West]

The VFR tower provides IFR separation between arrivals and departures and successive departures per LOA with the overlying radar facility.

If a VFR tower provides IFR separation it is not a VFR tower - it is what we used to call an LRAC (Limited Radar Approach Control), now I think its' a "Tower with Radar". A different animal - the controllers in a Tower with Radar are certified to perform some radar functions. With a true VFR tower, the overlying IFR facility, be it TRACON or Center, provides the IFR separation at all times.

VFR towers issue IFR clearances all the time.

They may read them on frequency, but they are reading the clearance issued by the overlying IFR facility.

Additionally, VFR tower can issue a special VFR clearance which is a form of IFR clearance in that IFR separation is provided to that a/c.

Only if that authority is delegated to them in a Letter of Agreement, and then only after coordination with the overlying IFR facility - they can't do it autonomously.

At big terminals local controllers are radar qualified for at least limited radar services often full services are provided and the tower may have an distinct area of jurisduction beyond a class d separate from the Tracon.

Exactly. One Tower with Radar I work with has an extension to the west where there's a lot of helo traffic, so they can provide radar services to them without coordination.

 

[GIVDrvr]

If a VFR tower provides IFR separation it is not a VFR tower - it is what we used to call an LRAC (Limited Radar Approach Control), now I think its' a "Tower with Radar". A different animal - the controllers in a Tower with Radar are certified to perform some radar functions. With a true VFR tower, the overlying IFR facility, be it TRACON or Center, provides the IFR separation at all times.

uhmm wrong..lots of level 2 vfr towers provide initial separation between their departures if only non radar separation.
Check the LOA between PHL and PNE or ILG for example.

They may read them on frequency, but they are reading the clearance issued by the overlying IFR facility

Uhmm wrong again many level 2 vfr towers have a FDIO that generates IFR strips and the clearance is obtained from the Center Flight Data Area not the overlying IFR approach control.

Only if that authority is delegated to them in a Letter of Agreement, and then only after coordination with the overlying IFR facility - they can't do it autonomously.

Never addressed where they derived their authority since its not relevant...fact remains they are able to issue the sVFR clearance.
Strike 3 you're outta there kid. Try posting this on NATCAnet see what replies u get.

 

[Hold West]

uhmm wrong..lots of level 2 vfr towers provide initial separation between their departures if only non radar separation.
Check the LOA between PHL and PNE or ILG for example.

You're missing the point - they're not VFR if they are providing IFR separation. And there are no such things as level 2 towers anymore.

Uhmm wrong again many level 2 vfr towers have a FDIO that generates IFR strips and the clearance is obtained from the Center Flight Data Area not the overlying IFR approach control.

The point is they don't formulate their own clearances... they read it off the strip.

Never addressed where they derived their authority since its not relevant...

Ummm.... that IS the point, pal. A VFR tower does not exercise IFR separation authority. Period.

fact remains they are able to issue the sVFR clearance. Strike 3 you're outta there kid. Try posting this on NATCAnet see what replies u get.

Nice try, not working, you're wrong. Been there, done that, don't need to ask anyone.

 

[ERJFO]

Yeah it is the services they have. I guess it would be like doing an approach in nonradar environment.

That is wrong.

 

[GIVDrvr]

HoldWest I am showing your replies to some ATC12 friends with about 130 yrs of seniority among them and they wanted me to thank you for the laughs your posts have provided

 

[Hold West]

HoldWest I am showing your replies to some ATC12 friends with about 130 yrs of seniority among them and they wanted me to thank you for the laughs your posts have provided

This is obvious one-upmanship, and a waste of my time. Tell your friends... ah, never mind, they're imaginary.

 

[GIVDrvr]

Although Holdwest's contentious empty banter has been entertaining here are a few defining statements from slightly more reliable authorities:

FAA Inspector General defining a VFR tower to the Aviation Subcommittee:
"VFR towers, or non-approach control facilities, do not provide radar separation to aircraft. Instead, controllers at non-approach control towers are responsible for sequencing aircraft using other methods such as visually identifying an aircraft’s location and communicating with pilots to determine their position. Controllers at these towers may use a radar display to aid them in performing their duties. For example, they may correlate the positions of an aircraft, provide suggested headings, and issue radar traffic advisories. However, they cannot advise an aircraft that they are under radar control."

hmmm bottom line limited radar but mostly they dont' vector where have I heard that???

Excerpt from study on FAA Contract Tower program

The FAA narrowly defined the congressional request to evaluate FAA towers “without radar capability” and included only 41 of its 71 VFR towers in its study. FAA concluded that the remaining 30 towers did not meet the definition of Congress because those facilities are equipped with a monitoring device known as DBRITE and provide limited IFR services through an LOA with a larger radar-equipped facility. For example, there are currently as many as 40 towers in the existing VFR Contract Tower Program that also are equipped with DBRITE displays and provide similar IFR services through LOAs with larger FAA facilities.
In addition, FAA’s methodology went too far in considering some busier towers and not far enough in considering other towers with substantially lower levels of air traffic activity. For example, FAA included Pontiac/Oakland International Airport for consideration (even though this airport is among FAA’s 50 busiest towers) because the facility is not equipped with a DBRITE and does not have an LOA for IFR operations. In contrast, FAA excluded Allegheny County Airport from consideration because the facility is equipped with a DBRITE and has an LOA for IFR operations.

hmmm some of the existing VFR towers provide limited IFR services golly that sounds familiar too....


Finally to make it really easy here is a listing of all 71 FAA VFR Towers...note non-FAA facilities are excluded.


Grade 5 VFR Towers Juneau International Grand Canyon Municipal El Monte Napa County Santa Rosa Sonoma Fort Pierce Lafayette/Perdue University AnnArbor


Grade 6 VFR TowersScottsdale Camarillo Concord/Buchanan Field Hayward Air Terminal Livermore Municipal Sacramento International San Jose/Reid-Hillview Denver/Jeffco Wilmington/New Castle Miami/Kendall-Tamiami Vero Beach Cahokia/St. Louis Chicago/Aurora Municipal Louisville Bowman New Orleans/Lakefront Detroit Willow Run Minneapolis/Crystal St. Paul Downtown Spirit of St. Louis Poughkeepsie/DutchessPortland-Hillsboro Northeast Philadelphia Pittsburgh/Allegheny County Fort Worth/Alliance Everett Paine Field


Grade 7 VFR Towers

Anchorage/Merril Field Mesa/Falcon Field Phoenix-Deer Valley Municipal Prescott/EA Love Field Carlsbad/McClellan Chino La Verne/Bracket Field Palo Alto San Diego/Gillespie Field San Diego/Montgomery Santa Monica Municipal Torrance/Zamperini Field Fort Lauderdale Executive Orlando Executive Dekalb-Peachtree Chicago/Du Page Chicago/Palwaukee Municipal Bedford/Hanscom Field Nantucket Minneapolis/Flying Cloud Grand Forks International Caldwell Morristown North Las Vegas Farmingdale/Republic Dallas Addison D. W. Hooks Newport News​

Grade 8 VFR TowersOrlando/Sanford Pontiac/Oakland Ct'y Internat'l Tulsa/Riverside Seattle/Boeing Field​

Grade 9 VFR TowersLong Beach Van Nuys Denver/Centennial Fort Worth Meacham​

Finally, Holdwest why are u unable to post on NATCANet? Do you not support your fellow controllers by financially supporting the organization that gave u a 25% increase in wages? Yet do u still accept the bennies without accepting the financial responsibility?​

 

[Hold West]

FAA Inspector General defining a VFR tower to the Aviation Subcommittee:
"VFR towers, or non-approach control facilities, do not provide radar separation to aircraft. Instead, controllers at non-approach control towers are responsible for sequencing aircraft using other methods such as visually identifying an aircraft’s location and communicating with pilots to determine their position. Controllers at these towers may use a radar display to aid them in performing their duties. For example, they may correlate the positions of an aircraft, provide suggested headings, and issue radar traffic advisories. However, they cannot advise an aircraft that they are under radar control."

hmmm bottom line limited radar but mostly they dont' vector where have I heard that???

You are just proving my simple point - that they exercise no IFR control authority. All the functions above are visual. And read the last line for content, son. "...they cannot advise an aircraft that they are under radar control."

Finally, Holdwest why are u unable to post on NATCANet? Do you not support your fellow controllers by financially supporting the organization that gave u a 25% increase in wages? Yet do u still accept the bennies without accepting the financial responsibility?

Sorry, I'm a charter member, got the gold card to show for it, PAC contributor, local officer. You're even farther off on that one!

 

[GIVDrvr]

You are just proving my simple point - that they exercise no IFR control authority. All the functions above are visual. And read the last line for content, son. "...they cannot advise an aircraft that they are under radar control."

The question is what is your point?...I established this in my initial post. You started the IFR clearance nonsense ...by your logic if I am sitting at CD in DFW Tower and issue a clearance to a Lear climbing into the flight levels which I can only do with the authority of the overlying Center then I am a VFR Tower controller. Of course, when I am relieved and plug into Local West and vector a go-around its clear that I am not...I am radar controller working in a tower cab.
BTW please call the Administrators Safety Hotline and advise them that ILG, PNE, TTN. LGB, FUL, LGB, TOA, TEB, CDW,MMU etc are all illegally providing initial IFR separation between successive departures. Thats whats in their LOAs with their hub TRACONs. The radar controller can issue multiple simultaneous releases and the Tower provides initial IFR separation even if its non-radar in a radar environment.

 

[GIVDrvr]

Sorry, I'm a charter member, got the gold card to show for it, PAC contributor, local officer

BTW ditto and good on ya if thats the case no go file some IWR Art8/9s and quit pulling my chain!