USAirways CLT PBR Recall

[cameltoad]

For all CLT based guys who have had enough of PBR and their policy of just saying no to say no, it time to get rid of them and move on. Visit www.rocclt.org
When the professional negotiator that you have hired tells you it will not get any better than this but you STILL poison the water by telling everyone to vote no, even though we got 85% of what we wanted. It is time to realize that Doug isn't the problem, or the Nic, it's the CLT PBR. They need to go.

 

[becket]

For all CLT based guys who have had enough of PBR and their policy of just saying no to say no, it time to get rid of them and move on. Visit www.rocclt.org
When the professional negotiator that you have hired tells you it will not get any better than this but you STILL poison the water by telling everyone to vote no, even though we got 85% of what we wanted. It is time to realize that Doug isn't the problem, or the Nic, it's the CLT PBR. They need to go.

File this under "No Sh*t". I've been saying this for five years now. Welcome to a glimpse of reality.

 

[Sherpa]

So this has nothing to do with Pabst Blue Ribbon? I sometimes have trouble recalling after PBR.

Seriously though, I think the whole industry is looking forward to you guys getting a fair contract. An MOU for temp relief would certainly be nice bar any substantial concessions. How is it that American can "bargain" with APA during non-disclosure but USAPA can't?

 

[LearLove]

For all CLT based guys who have had enough of PBR and their policy of just saying no to say no, it time to get rid of them and move on. Visit www.rocclt.org
When the professional negotiator that you have hired tells you it will not get any better than this but you STILL poison the water by telling everyone to vote no, even though we got 85% of what we wanted. It is time to realize that Doug isn't the problem, or the Nic, it's the CLT PBR. They need to go.

Are you drunk? 85% of what management wanted maybe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK-Dqj4fHmM

 

[abefly]

So this has nothing to do with Pabst Blue Ribbon? I sometimes have trouble recalling after PBR.

Seriously though, I think the whole industry is looking forward to you guys getting a fair contract. An MOU for temp relief would certainly be nice bar any substantial concessions. How is it that American can "bargain" with APA during non-disclosure but USAPA can't?

American can bargain because they set the terms in the NDA.

US Airways doesn't need USAPA to take part in any of this. They are worthless.

 

[Turtle21]

For all CLT based guys who have had enough of PBR and their policy of just saying no to say no, it time to get rid of them and move on. Visit www.rocclt.org
When the professional negotiator that you have hired tells you it will not get any better than this but you STILL poison the water by telling everyone to vote no, even though we got 85% of what we wanted. It is time to realize that Doug isn't the problem, or the Nic, it's the CLT PBR. They need to go.

Are you drunk? Not one BPR member voted in favor of the MOU, and not one BPR member voted against pilots having the opportunity to vote on it. Every BPR domicile voted the same freaking way!

They all voted the SAME way. Are you going to recall everyone from every domicile?

Are you drunk?

 

[cameltoad]

No, you guys are if you think Doug needs us to do the deal, hell he has run 2 airlines with two seniority list with two different contracts under one banner for 6 years, why not three? Look, I feel for all of my fellow East pilots that have been taking it on the chin for the last dozen years or so I really do. But at some point we need TO MOVE THE HELL ON! I know it wasn't perfect. Everyone was upset by the lack of no min. fleet, yes in a perfect world we would get everything but with no furlough I would see that as a good compromise, we got from 6 years parity to 3 with Delta, a huge step from what we are suffering under right now, and no one can argue that the pay rates were a damn good step in the right direction. But now we are nowhere, pissed off the man who clearly holds a majority of the cards. The APA boys have their deal with Doug, how are you going to feel when they are flying their "side" of American making approx. 40% more than we are?
Bottoms up!

 

[LearLove]

No, you guys are if you think Doug needs us to do the deal, hell he has run 2 airlines with two seniority list with two different contracts under one banner for 6 years, why not three? Look, I feel for all of my fellow East pilots that have been taking it on the chin for the last dozen years or so I really do. But at some point we need TO MOVE THE HELL ON! I know it wasn't perfect. Everyone was upset by the lack of no min. fleet, yes in a perfect world we would get everything but with no furlough I would see that as a good compromise, we got from 6 years parity to 3 with Delta, a huge step from what we are suffering under right now, and no one can argue that the pay rates were a damn good step in the right direction. But now we are nowhere, pissed off the man who clearly holds a majority of the cards. The APA boys have their deal with Doug, how are you going to feel when they are flying their "side" of American making approx. 40% more than we are?
Bottoms up!

No furlough clause my left nut. You do understand that with no min fleet the bottom guys on the list are getting a 100% pay cut when they hit the street.

And don't give me some crap (like Gary did) about retirements out pacing any fleet draw down. I don't want retirements to be my job protection. I want my job protection in my contract (it's sad that we have to have it in the first place) and retirements to be the icing on the cake.

You don't "feel" for your fellow pilots, you feel for your wallet and look only to a fast pay increase and the expense of others.

 

[Dornier 335]

I hate to put more fuel in the fire, but I heard that there will be "min block hours" instead of min fleet. Anyone got more info?

 

[cameltoad]

No furlough clause my left nut. You do understand that with no min fleet the bottom guys on the list are getting a 100% pay cut when they hit the street.

And don't give me some crap (like Gary did) about retirements out pacing any fleet draw down. I don't want retirements to be my job protection. I want my job protection in my contract (it's sad that we have to have it in the first place) and retirements to be the icing on the cake.

You don't "feel" for your fellow pilots, you feel for your wallet and look only to a fast pay increase and the expense of others.

Funny you should say that, for I AM the bottom of the list, I HAVE been furloughed before from here and other 121 ops. USAPA's sole purpose of being has been been "I don't care who and how long I screw up everyone else I am not going to place nice with others." Don't preach to me about not thinking of my fellow pilots.
And if you think any contract is going to guarantee your job you're delusional, you cannot have been in this industry for the last 12 years and seen these contracts shredded and promises broken with the stroke of a judges pen.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Are you drunk? Not one BPR member voted in favor of the MOU, and not one BPR member voted against pilots having the opportunity to vote on it. Every BPR domicile voted the same freaking way!

They all voted the SAME way. Are you going to recall everyone from every domicile?

Are you drunk?

They voted to overrule the recommendations of the people who were at the table and in doing so eliminated most any chance of the NAC being taken seriously in negotiations ever again.

Evidently THEY were drunk!

I would support a wholesale housecleaning of the BPR whose utter stupidity will wreak havoc on this pilot group for many years.

This pilot group will elect the sort of progressive representitives that give power back to the line pilots, not pretend that they know better, while advancing their own agendas.

 

[Turtle21]

They voted to overrule the recommendations of the people who were at the table and in doing so eliminated most any chance of the NAC being taken seriously in negotiations ever again.

Evidently THEY were drunk!

I would support a wholesale housecleaning of the BPR whose utter stupidity will wreak havoc on this pilot group for many years.

This pilot group will elect the sort of progressive representitives that give power back to the line pilots, not pretend that they know better, while advancing their own agendas.

You just don't get it. The ENTIRE BPR voted to recommend the pilots reject the COMPANY MOU OFFER. The BPR did not in any way reject the work of the NAC, they simply strengthened the NAC's credibility (ie "The company offer does not cut it.).

The BPR was passing out the MOU. The company freaked and pulled it because they didn't want to risk the voice of the entire pilot group saying the same.... NO MORE CONCESSIONS!

Aim your gun down range, Bro.

 

[Bringupthebird]

You just don't get it. The ENTIRE BPR voted to recommend the pilots reject the COMPANY MOU OFFER. The BPR did not in any way reject the work of the NAC, they simply strengthened the NAC's credibility (ie "The company offer does not cut it.).

The BPR was passing out the MOU. The company freaked and pulled it because they didn't want to risk the voice of the entire pilot group saying the same.... NO MORE CONCESSIONS!
.

What color is the sky in your world?

McKee is the only one spouting your party line and he doesn't have a shred of credibility. The professional negotiator did not come back and say," Gee if we had more time we could have gotten a good deal." They said this was the best deal we will see. The BPR said they knew more than the negotiator and wanted to play them and the company so that they could try and pull off the tough-guy persona (they have failed at miserably every time they've tried).

The company can't "pull" the MOU any more than the BPR can (and in effect did) 'pull' the MOU from the line pilots, just to advance their agenda. It's been negotiated and is ready for presentation to the pilots for approval just as it would have been presented to the board for approval.

Now the BPR has again made the entire pilot group look like idiots, idiots without protections and signing bonuses, by the way.

Wake up! USAPA has failed you every single time they've opened their mouth. Good luck with the mercy of the APA.

 

[Bringupthebird]

And the pilots lost the ability to reject concessions when they handed the keys to the union to the Angry F/O's.

 

[vetrider]

This will be a fart in the wind. There won't be any recalls.

 

[Flybywire44]

Does United or Delta have a min fleet clause?

 

[Turtle21]

Does United or Delta have a min fleet clause?

If they had one would they give it up?

 

[Flybywire44]

If they had one would they give it up?

I asked because I don't believe Delta has a minimum fleet, but I know that DAL does have other negative events that trigger if mainline aircraft are removes. ie. reductions in regional aircraft.

Maybe someone can supply more information on this subject.